Insane

August 3rd, 2008 By: Michael van der Galien | Tags:

If politicians believe that the crimes against Armenians during World War I are ‘facts’ and established as such, and that Ottoman leaders were responsible for those crimes, it only shows that said politicians do not know much about this subject. There’s a debate going on between historians about the events of, before and after 1915; if it were such a clear case, such a debate would not exist.

However, the words in the letter cited at the report linked to above, contain some interesting points; firstly, they differ between Ottomans and Turks. Turkey and the Ottoman Empire are not one and the same; politicians and others would be wise to keep this in mind. Secondly, the letter mentions the massacres of Armenians and deportations, etc., but does not use the word genocide; this too is important.

What’s missing in this letter and in all other letters relating to this event some call the ‘Armenian genocide,’ are Turkish Moslem victims. For some reason, Western politicians do not seem to care much about the tremendous loss of life among Turkish Moslems; about how they were butchered, raped, vilified, tortured, drowned, suffocated, beaten or burned to death. This letter is no exception in this regard.

It would be wise for Americans and other Westerners to finally include the horrendous crimes committed by Armenian nationalists and other Christian nationalists in their angry letters about 1915 (before, and after). Perhaps the ‘enlightened’ Christian world should start showing to Turks and Moslems in general that their lives matter just as much as those of Christians.

More importantly, though, politicians should finally learn that history should be considered the field of historians; experts, in other words. Politicians should not attempt to (re)write history. They should let historians do that.

Menendez and other puppets of the Armenian lobby and activists in America are making a disgraceful and simplified spectacle out of a very complicated and nuanced subject. And why? Money and votes.

All the while they keep pretending that it is about ‘principles,’ of course. But we all know that this is most certainly not the case; if it was, the Turkish deaths would be included in the letters, complaints and reports.

Then again, taking swipes at Turks is quite safe for any politician; most Westerners do not know much about Turks other than old, negative prejudices time and again confirmed and propagated by the regional enemies of Turkey such as Armenians.

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  1. Robert
    August 4th, 2008 at 22:47
    Reply | Quote | #1

    "…money and votes…"

    Take look at:
    http://www.armenianlife.com/Archive/ArchivePDF/English/08-04-2008.pdf

    The article: Turkey’s denialist cohort…

  2. P. Connolly
    August 4th, 2008 at 23:41
    Reply | Quote | #2

    Yes, I agree with Michael’s comments. It is grossly insensitive to ignore the Armenian Provocation in the years leading up to 1915 and to speak as if Moslem lives are not worthy of mention. We in America need better communication with a Peaceful Moslem Culture like present-day Turkey and we should avoid misguided criticisms of their culture and history. In March 1915, the Turks were invaded by huge array of battleships and rightly saw themselves as being on the verge on annihilation. The loss of life -on both sides- in the Gallipoli campaign was enormous. All this came on the heels of the 1912-1913 Balkan wars which saw huge loss of Turkish life both military and civilian. The Armenians need to admit that the Armenian Revolutionaries couldn’t have picked a worse time to provoke their government.  

    Also, in the past, this gazette has blocked Armenian Propagandists from posting links to more of their propaganda and I would like to see this policiy fully enforced moving forward. If they want to debate the substance of the article they should be made to feel most welcome to do so but if they just want to post more links to their lying propaganda they should be blocked, in my opinion.

  3. hyola
    August 5th, 2008 at 23:24
    Reply | Quote | #3

    Here we go again! 

  4. Lucrèce
    August 6th, 2008 at 16:50
    Reply | Quote | #4

    http://www.karabakh-doc.azerall.info/ru/armyanstvo/arm12eng.htm#z3

    Regarding the situation in Van, the Russians were approaching from three fronts, Muradiye, Özalp, and Baskale. The Armenians in the city were rebelling and continued an aggressive campaign against the Muslim population for 29 days. We had three barracks, Hacž Bekir, Aziziye, and Toprakkale. Ten soldiers would guard each one. They raided these barracks and slaughtered the soldiers like sheep by slicing their throats. Ali Çavus was also martyred there. While our weak militia were digging trenches to try to fight, the Armenians made holes in the walls and were firing shots with machine guns, pouring cans of kerosene, lighting fires, and escaping through the deep tunnels. This brutal attack lasted 29 days. The decision to flee was finally made so that the Muslim population would not suffer any more deaths. Those with carts used them; those without were under desperate conditions, but we all joined the exodus. People left their children on the road, others died from hunger and disease. It should be remembered that the Armenians not only committed large massacres in Van, but in the villages as well. The homes in the villages of Tžmar, Baskale, and Özalp were stuffed with hay and set on fire. Those that tried to escape were killed with bullets and bayonets. The inhabitants of a few villages in Zeve organized and fought the Armenians, but almost all of them — from seven different villages — were killed. Mass graves are still being uncovered in these villages and a memorial was built. Of the twelve ships that carried the Muslim refugees from Van, four of them carried government employees and their families. All of the sailors aboard the vessels were Armenians. The Armenian bandits, aided by these sailors, forced the four government employee boats to dock at the Adžr island, and killed all of the passengers. As for those in the other eight boats, they were taken to another island near Tatvan where Armenian bandits were waiting, but were able to escape with few casualties because they were armed. When we left Van, we first went to Bitlis, and later to Diyarbakžr. We witnessed the Armenian savagery along the way. Finally, I will tell you about what we saw and heard upon returning to Van. The Armenians applied all types of torture to the inhabitants, God bless their souls. They paraded Isa Hodja, who was over 100 years old, on a donkey through the village, raided and looted homes, and gathered women and girls into Mr. Ziya’s home where they repeatedly raped them. They threw the bodies of the dead into wells, and even filled the well of our mosque with their victims’ bodies. When General Cevdet entered Van for the first time, he asked the gendarmes to escort 130 women whose husbands were at the front to Diyarbakžr. They had been stranded in Van because they did not have any transportation. About 30 of them stayed in our house. They spun wool to survive. They were also given military rations. They told us that there was no end to the torture and cruelties they suffered at the hands of the Armenian bandits. The Armenians skinned the men, castrated them, and raped and impaled the women. We returned to Van four years later. We stayed two years initially, but were forced to flee again when the Russians arrived. This time we went as far as Siirt. When we returned 200-250 Armenian families were seeking refuge on the Çarpanak island. They were hoping that the Turks would leave, and that they would resettle in Van. Most of them were artisans. A short time later, a new decree was issued, and they were sent to Revan under the protection of the government. However, Van, raided seven times by the enemy, was completely destroyed except for the Armenian quarters. We had to rebuild the city.

  5. Lucrèce
    August 6th, 2008 at 16:54
    Reply | Quote | #5

    http://www.karabakh-doc.azerall.info/ru/armyanstvo/arm12eng.htm#z3

    SAIT ALDANMAZ Father’s Name: Bahri
    Mother’s Name: Nigar
    Place of Birth: Bitlis
    Date of Birth: 1900
    I was fourteen years old during the mobilization. Armenians insulted us in every way. With my own eyes, I saw an Armenian poke a dagger into a woman’s stomach and pull out her child. They killed 15-20 people with bayonets in my neighborhood of Ersan. When the Russians arrived, the Armenians helped them. The Armenians who arrived with the Russians attacked our soldiers under the Hormuz police station. We saw the bodies which were left on the snow. These incidents took place during the second migration of September, 1916. We fled one other time in July 1915, and stayed in Gorlar for a month. When the Russians were unable to penetrate Bitlis, we returned. Only 45 families fled. We left everything behind — our home, our animals, our barn &endash; and they were all destroyed. Among the ruins of every home, in the fields, and in the farms were the bodies of people killed with the Armenians’ bayonets. We applied for permission to bury them. The soldiers dug ditches and the bodies were buried there. There were thousands, not hundreds of bodies, because five-ten people were killed in each home with bayonets.

  6. Lucrèce
    August 6th, 2008 at 17:02
    Reply | Quote | #6

    In Far Eastern Anatolia (Van, Bitlis…), around 80% of the male population were armed. It is not difficult to imagine the reactions of the Muslims, and more especially the Kurdish bands, when the Armenian revolutionaries and the Assyrian/Nestorian insurgees supported the Russian invasion and butchered thousands of innocent peopes.

    Among the most important responsables of the atrocities against Armenian civilians, there are the leaders of the revolutionaries committee, and more especially the ARF/Dashak.

  7. Robert
    August 6th, 2008 at 22:56
    Reply | Quote | #7

    Eh Lucrece,

    In your last commentary, I think you ment "…ARF/Dashnak.", right ?

    Because "Dashak" means "couilles" in Turkish !!!
    Quoique, le terme "Dashak" peut aussi être aproprié…   }:-)))

  8. Lucrèce
    August 8th, 2008 at 16:07
    Reply | Quote | #8

    Sorry, I am in holidays, and have not even a French keyboard…

    Bon cela dit, c’est toujours agréable de voir un francophone en ces lieux…

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