Erkenegon Linked to Ancient Mythical Organization
Umh . What the hell should we think about this? ‘On the day when the Istanbul prosecutor briefed the public on the charges faced by members of the Ergenekon gang, the Doğan news agency, or DHA, reported on the details of the indictment, noting that it said the gang had a feudal structure linked to a clan with a history of six centuries.’
According to the indictment, the clan was called ‘Agarta,’ a mythical Central Asian secret organization that hid in caves, with the Turkish version of the name being ‘Ergenekon.’ According to Turkish myths, Ergenekon was the land where Turks were imprisoned by the surrounding mountains, only to be led to freedom and world dominance through a secret passage by a female wolf.
On the less mythical side of the indictment, the charges are supported by testimonies provided by 20 witnesses whose identities are kept confidential.
Now, you can call me Dutch, but whenever a prosecutor talks about a “mythical organization” I instantly think; ‘I bet there’s a reason it’s called mythical .’ Additionally, I’m quite willing to believe a wide variety of things, but I’ve got a difficult time believing that Erkenegon is somehow related to the aforementioned ancient organization. How the hell could such an operation survive… in secret ? The Italian Mafia has survived, sure, but everyone knew it existed; it was clear. But this is an entirely different case, no?
It does make the story sound more fascinating though.
And, who knows? If there is a clear link, and if this link is established in a court of law, the Erkenegon case is historical.
[Witness] Dilovası is said to have provided damming evidence against retired Maj. Gen. Veli Küçük when the suspect worked in the Kocaeli region.
Küçük was suspected of involvement in the Susurluk scandal in the late 1990s, which involved illicit connections between security agencies, nationalist hit men and clans, but refused to testify…
According to the indictment, the Ergenekon group is formed of 20 departments headed by a president and a deputy and every department worked as a separate cell.
It was noted in the indictment that Istanbul Chief Prosecutor Aykut Cengiz Engin asked the Organized Crime Bureau chief in the Istanbul Police Department, Adil Serdar Saçan, to investigate the claims made against the Ergenekon gang a few years back but Saçan had ended the investigation a year later without finding anything.
According to DHA, police found notes describing bribes given to Saçan and secret notes sent by Saçan to Engin in Küçük’s apartment…
The gang utilizes its links to organized crime, with the testimony of jailed mafia leader Alaattin Çakıcı supporting this argument.
Another jailed mafia leader Sedat Peker is said to have been involved in Ergenekon and was ordered to find the funds for money paid to lawyers.
Prosecutors also argued that the gang tried to base its actions on Kemalist ideology but had failed.
A couple of things have to be said about the case; it appears that the identities of most witnesses who brought forth ‘damning evidence’ have not yet been disclosed. If this is the case, and if this remains so, I always believe that their testimonies have to be taken with a (huge) grain of salt.
Having said that, it’s very important to point out - and this should be repeated time and again, even by Recep Tayyip Erdogan, Turkey’s Prime Minister - that the indictment argues that this Erkenegon gang “ tried to base its actions on Kemalist ideology… but had failed .”
From the start of the investigation, supporters of the AK Parti (especially in the media) and AK Parti leaders have argued that the Erkenegon gang was formed by Kemalists; these people, they said, were strict followers of Mustafa Kemal’s (later: Atatürk was added as his surname) ideology. The indictment, however, seems to disagree with that assessment; they tried to base their actions on this ideology, but failed. As such, they cannot possibly be called Kemalists , for Kemalists don’t take political action that’s in breach with the principles of Kemalism… that’s what makes them Kemalists , no?
So how should we call these individuals ( if, if, if , the accusations are proven correct)? Erkenegonists? Fascists? Militarists? What?
The case is becoming increasingly interesting. I’m skeptical, but I’m open to the possibility that these people could indeed be part of a ‘gang’ that has the aim to overthrow the democratically elected Turkish government.
I share but don’t enjoy commenting here.
But here we go:
a) its obvious that you can not read Turkish, so your narrow oh so ‘Western’ mindset gets the upperhand in your writing about my country.
b) in fact all, read ALL, Turkish newspapers are starting to believe that there are people who are part of Kemalist or Ataturks foundations are involved in overthrown a elected government.
c) you are ranting about the AK parti if no other MP’s in Turkey are questioning the real structure of power in Turkey (read: CHP, militairy and the legalisators) like the ODF and Oran Baski!!!!!
Before you will make more assessments about Turkey, don’t listen to your cheerleaders and come up with a more investigative story.
Dude (or not), you have no idea where I get my news from, nor whether I read articles written in Turkish or not. The point is, which you seem to miss because you unable to grasp nuance that the Erkenegon gang could NOT base its actions on Kemalist ideology, according to the prosecutor in the case and the indictment against these individuals.
THAT is the point.
That does not mean that they do not work for pro-Atatürk organizations, just like their working for such organizations does not mean that all their actions are in line with Kemalism.
Your comment can from now on be used as an argument to back up the claim that there is something very seriously wrong with the Turkish system of education. You speak English, yet are unable to grasp the slightest nuances. You have the intellect to learn foreign languages, yet you are complete unable to reason in a logical and coherent manner.
Ozlem, your statement about Turkish newspapers reveals that you clearly cannot read Turkish.
Yes, Michael. Ergenekon is sounding more like a fantastic science fiction novel than anything else.
Also, the 27 hand grenades found in June 2007 that allegedly started this whole investigation, they were destroyed within a week of their discovery. Yes, that’s right. They no longer exist.
Evidence? Who needs evidence?
Michael - Ozlem is a poseur, probably someone who wishes they were a Turk, but is not.
[admin]: Comment deleted. The word “Fascist” is not a plaything on this blog. Use it again and you are banned.
Ozlem, what are you trying to say? I have really much difficulty in following you and this is not just for your comment about this article but about your previous comment as well.
You are talking about reading ‘Taraf’. Are you supporting AK Party or CHP. Correct me if I am wrong but you previously mentioned that you are a daughter of a general. Then I assume you are Kemalist but suggesting to read Taraf contradicts with that.
Can you please make yourself clear cos otherwise you are really giving more harm than good. Turkey and educated Turkish youth should not be presented this way. You are suggesting people to read a fanatic newspaper alongside with other sources but the only thing you seem to read is Taraf.
Guys, the more I think about this Ergenekon issue, the more I started to believe that this is an attempt by AK Party to change the real agenda of Turkey. AK Party, soon to be shut down with high probability by constitutional court is in desperate need to get the flashes away. Otherwise they would be able to come up with an indictment long before. We know that there is a real tension between religious right and the army and army never actually supported AK Party.
Elif,
Google my name and you will find my father.
Many people in the army are angry because of the fact that the TSK are put in a bad situation, but their image didn’t vanished, in contrary, they are aware about their responsibilities. And the TSK serve Turkey, not guide Turkey. That’s the point.
The fact that finally there is a slow investigation into illegal activities in the Turkish society, where the CE of this ‘blog’ dont’t understand one thing about it, makes it only interesting: open up Turkey.
Elif and Kemal: follow your common senses, and yes, I am a Kemalist, not in your idiot way following blind orders.
And Sit Michael: delete as much as you can, it proves you are an ignorant person who can not stand critics.
You are noticed.
Salute
Ozlem
Ozlem, it’s not Michael deleting you, it’s me. Michael may have hesitated since the insult was directed at him to delete you. I have no such problems. You say Michael doesn’t know Turkey. I say that if you knew Europe, you’d know why fascist is a no-no word here on the blog. This is your final warning, insulting without backing with at least cursory evidence is not allowed.
Just found out that Michael has a girl friend who seems to be the daughter of a colonel in Turkey…….
hahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahah
what a joke
Hands of Turkey you Michael…..
a colonel…..retired? Yes, Izmir? Yes….
You sounds like a NSB’r according Dutch friends here in Rotterdam….
The picture became complete:
ben sizin kiz arkadasinizin babasini taniyorum. Daha fazla uydurma haber size, kiz arkadasiniza ve kiz arkadasinizin babasina zarar verecektir.
Soit
Ozlem, ingilizce de yaziyorsun, ama yazdiklarin hic anlasilmiyor. Turkiyedeki butun gasteler Ergenekon hadeseyi kabul ediyorlar diye yazdin. Bu yalan. Hurriyet, Cumhuriyet kabul etmiyor. Bunlari okuyormisin?
Who’s the idiot Ozlem?
What you express does not make sense and much of it is blatently incorrect.
All newspapers in Turkey do not accept "Ergenekon". Don’t you read Hurriyet or Cumhuriyet? They and their Op Editors are still soundly criticizing the Ergenekon case. What about Nihat Genc? Do you know who he is? Or, how about Bekir Coskun? Do they accept Ergenekon?
I’m sure the TSK is angry, but I find it hard to believe that the TSK is angry for the reasons you write.
If the Ergenekon charges are true, that means the TSK is completely incompetent when it comes to its own people. The TSK generally keeps a very close eye on their career officers. If the Ergenekon charges are true, then the TSK has no idea what its highest ranking officers are doing and no control over them, and that includes your father.
If the Ergenekon charges are true, we are asked to believe that Ilhan Selcuk participated in the bombing of the offices of his own newspaper. We are asked to believe that liberal journalists plotted the assasination of their colleagues, other liberal journalists.
If the Ergenekon charges are true, we are asked to believe that general Sener wanted to cause chaos, violence and riots so extreme that the entire country would become destabilized. From April through July 2007, Sener, as head of the ADD, had millions of Turks out in the streets protesting against the creep of Islam into politics, but not one violent incident occurred! The protests, despite their size were completely peaceful and without event. So we must believe that although Sener had the power to destabilize the country and cause riots last year, he decided instead to wait another two years.
Whoever you are Ozlem, you do not write truthful comments and it is highly doubtful to me that you are a general’s daughter. The daughter of a high ranking Turkish general would not be leaving comments on a blog announcing her father’s position given what is going on in Turkey, whether or not Ergenekon is real– because the AKP has accomplished what it set out to do. Most are afraid and would never speak about this issue in a public space such as this.
And I have no doubt that if a 4-star general knew his daughter was leaving comments about Ergenekon on a public blog on the internet, he would be furious.
"Daha fazla uydurma haber size, kiz arkadasiniza ve kiz arkadasinizin babasina zarar verecektir."
Are you threatening Michael’s girlfriend and her father? Even your Turkish doesn’t make sense.
Because if you are, perhaps you should worry about your own position and that of your 4-star general father.
[admin]: Comment deleted and commenter banned for reiterated blog policy violation.
Well, Ozlem, given your inability to express yourself in a coherent manner, it’s easy to see why you’d be an "independent."
Hmm, yes, I didn’t think you’d answer the part about how your statements basically assert that the man you claim to be your father and his colleagues are incompetent.
Kemal, I’ve deleted Ozlem, which by her comments is probably around 14, for repeated insults. I apologize because that removes context from your comments, but as she has been banned her later comments have also been deleted. On the upside, you may actually find a civilized person to debate with.
It’s not about culture. Its about good judgment, which you clearly don’t have.
The TSK has clearly stood aside from this issue. They have made few if any statements about this case in the past few months. Yet, here you are spewing forth like an exploding volcano.
Any adult child of someone in the TSK who understands the seriousness of what is going on and has half a brain cell working would have the good judgment not to do what you are. In any event, I’m sorry to say that the way you write gives the impression that you are mentally unstable, and I don’t mean that as an insult, I mean that sincerely. So that would explain the lack of judgment on your part.
No worries Claudia, the insults were just dumb, but the threats were definitely ban-worthy.
Thanks Claudia and Kemal; that was obviously the right decision. It seems that the commenter, however, doesn’t even understand ranks in the military though.
But the threats are nice. It’s always nice to see certain extremists fall back on threats of violence, whenever someone disagrees with them.
Which self-respecting, modern woman would support the sexist AKP? Women’s participation public life has gone down a lot under Erdogan.
Maybe Tansu Ciller should come back, she links secularism, patriotism and free market economical policy.
This so-called "plot" sounds like something from the X Files.
I am always amazed at our (YES OUR I AM TURKISH) peoples level of arrogance. I mean Michael made some analysis and observations from what he has read and this Ozlem lady comes out and makes threats, like "Ankara da dagyim var" sort of thing. We are a nation of Chiefs and not enough Indians. People should realise that you earn respect you CAN NOT command it. Further still this is the internet and in reality nobody knows anybody else’s back ground. By making that sort of threat, (If Ozlem did have any relatives in the Turkish Military) she is putting her relative’s position in jeopardy. I would urge everybody to argue against the arugments not make ad hominem attacks. Making ad hominem attacks is indicative of a lack of maturity, intelligence and culture.
3M: don’t take it too seriously. If someone is related to a four star general, that person would not make such comments. More importantly, perhaps, is the fact that a four star general cannot possibly be an Islamist willing to take out secularists who don’t agree with the AKP - a four star general is basically per definition secular in Turkey (as most of you will undoubtedly agree).
As for arrogance; I think it’s not typically Turkish, but typically human
This happens in a lot of other countries as well (albeit the threats are a nice addition). When one writes about another country, even if one visits that country often, has family (in-laws, or almost in-laws, girlfriends, boyfriends, normal friends, etc.) there, speaks or at least understands the language, etc., but does not have the country’s national identity, there are always those who feel it necessary to say that the person should not say anything about the country’s domestic issues (unless the person agrees with what is said or written of course, at which point the ‘foreigner’ automatically becomes a wise, intelligent person, who sees things as they are).
Michael you’re too kind and perhaps I’m getting too old. I’m running out of patience I suppose when I see the younger generation make mistakes my children would not have made when they were five years old it becomes very frustrating.
I wish all of you at Poligazette the best and urge you to keep up the good work. I don’t suggest we will alawys agree on everything but at least I like the idea that I can have a debate with people such as yourself and others at Poligazette that do have intelligence and objective minds.
Cheers
Michael, as long as the articles are having an open mind and objective approach, what you write here is irrelevant. For example, you had an article about east part of Turkey showing somewhat the conditions there. As much as I hate to admit that east part of Turkey remains uneducated mostly, this is a fact that I can not be emotional about. The reasons behind is another story but at the end of the day this is the reality. Should I know be telling you that you should not write about Turkey? Agreeing or not agreeing with you, liking or not liking what you write here emotionally do not matter. If people are not in a capacity to accept this, then they should not be commeting here anyway.
Dear Michael and Claudia; I wish I had more time to read all the information and objective comments shared in the PoliGazette. I would also thank you for your constructive effort and urge you to keep up the positive work. One more thing I would like to share with you and other readers and contributors is that, please do not waste your time with idiots like ‘Özlem’ – idiot used in the sense of those who have nothing else to do but stir ‘shit’ anywhere and everywhere - sorry for my bad French! Such people are everywhere; just look at any discussion group in the web you’ll find many of those species. We should just ignore such idiots. Thank you…. Sefer Tan
Ozlem,
Babami tanisaydin onun icin ‘colonel’ demezdin. Bu site yorumlara acik ancak gercegi olmayan palavralara maalesef acik degil. Ayrica babami ve beni taniman neyi degistirecek. Bu konu ile ne alakasi var? Ayrica tehditlerininde bu site de yeri yok. Insanlari tehdit etmen senin ne kadar zayif karakterli oldugunu gosteriyor. Umarim sozlerim senin dagarcigina gore acik ve anlasilirdir. Gerekirse tekrar da ederim.
And as a Dutch, I can’t help but wonder why Ozlem, it seems (google is a great invention) shares the surname with someone, a Dutch person married to a Turkish woman; de Wit(t).
hmm… makes one think, doesn’t it (especially because Ozlem’s Turkish is horrendous).
Anyway - Turkish friends, thanks for your kind comments and defense; from now on, however, don’t talk about this person any longer. It’s a poseur, and a bad one at that.
"After graduating from University of Miami, USA with a degree in Electrical Engineering, she pursued her career in Banking and now in IT. Meanwhile she has been molding clay more than a decade. She has participated in various group exhibitions. In her ceramic work, she says she is inspired by Dali.
Ozlem De Wit Bankal"
Is this "our" Özlem?
AAB: yeah.