Well, if people like you were the designers of the occupation I would probably have defended it by now, with equal fervor. But I am not seeing commitment to such sense.

If you establish them correctly, and make sure the Iraqi military and politicians agree with these. Then after strengthening their economy and parts of the education you can make sure that Iraq can stand on its own. You’ll also create a new generation of Iraqis who care for the country. You can truly have a successful Arab democracy, it isn’t impossible, but it is difficult and time-consuming.

Keep me out of this, thanks. I am ashamed that the pathetic occupation was prevented as such an exercise.

"America needs to increase funding and funnel money into Iraq and develop standards for its educational system. Bring the economy up to speed and get the Iraqi people to produce something other than oil."

You think that’s a priority for the non-military, non-politician guys that take part in overseeing and dictating things in Iraq? Whoah-oh. If you want the US to increase discussion of what is needed for withdrawal, you need to consider withdrawal ASAP. Obama is on that route, and he won’t jettison any Iraqi welfare if he doesn’t have to.

In contrast, Iraq’s tribal/religious culture seems highly resistant to modernity.  We were naive to think otherwise.   

My excuse was that I was 18, or 19 years old. What’s the excuse of so-called ’specialists’?

Are you not the same person who keeps telling people off for questioning/trying to dictate Turkey’s culture?

Michael; I think you misunderstood me. I’m not telling them to force them, I’m saying IF they want to succeed they HAVE to force them. I’m not casting judgment, just saying what you can do in this situation.

Selin; that’s also very true. Turks are Turks, Arabs are Arabs for starters. If people think the two cultures are similar I’ve got some books they should read.

Wow….. You THINK that Turkey’s culture is similar to that of Iraq??? The fact that they are geographically close like Texas and Arizona or they both happen to be Muslim countries doesn’t mean that they have the same culture of even anything close.

For starters,
1) Turks don’t start killing each other given the lack of a dictator.
2) Turks have ruled the entire land of the Ottoman Empire AND made sure that others (such as Shiites and Sunnis in today’s Iraq) did NOT get on each other’s throats whenever a power vacuum presented itself. They did this for 500 years or so.
3) …..
4) …..
5) …..

"Yet, we can’t be responsible for making that change happen.  It’s not our job, and every other culture change we’ve tried so far has been met with resistance."

Actually, when America decided to invade Iraq in 2003, rightfully or not, they made it THEIR business to make sure that would happen. But maybe John Steward will disagree. How sad

If America withdraws now, it will be no different than Britain 100 years back who withdrew from places the moment the colonized place became an unprofitable enterprise. You mess with the local dynamics, screw the previously existing culture and balance of power, suck as much of the riches and resources as you can and then get out the moment the place proves to be unresourceful. In fact, this practice of British Empire’s not "giving back" to the lands it had conquered (unlike the Ottoman Empire) explains why most of its past non-Christian and non-white colonies happen to be some of the poorest countries of the world today. Iraq was also under British rule after the Ottomans, by the way. The "imperial" power has now shifted to the U.S., of course.

I believe it IS America’s business and responsibility. Whether America wants to shirk that responsibility and pretend that after five years of war, it’s not really their business because they are no longer "amused" by their war the way they were in 2003 (please remember Bush’s sky-high approval ratings AND the fact that the public approved of the war tremendously back then AND it looked good on TV like a brand new toy), that’s the voters’ call.

As Utsu says so beautifully, if the content upsets or offends anyone, I’m really trying to hold back my heartfelt thoughts the best I can :)))

Here’s how you solve that. America needs to increase funding and funnel money into Iraq and develop standards for its educational system. Bring the economy up to speed and get the Iraqi people to produce something other than oil. Eventually, modernity will be achieved and westernization will cease to be rejected. In nations where the economy and educational system suffers, fundamentalists flourish and then they use censorship and their religious education to keep themselves alive.

The problem of the Iraq War is much like the problem of security of a website. No matter how powerful you create your software to be, there’s always a way for some hacker to take over. Security software engineers do not attempt to create a hack-free world, they attempt to create a hard-to-hack world. As a result hacking has decreased over the years; now only the pros can do any serious damage. It’s the same with Iraq, you should not expect a full-fledged "American" democracy in Iraq, but making terrorism there difficult can only make the world safer.

It’s a battle between the will of the West versus the will of fundamentalists. After decades of fighting the fundamentalists, though they may still believe that victory is possible, they will not find recruits that believe in them. You withdraw from Iraq and you will have given them the morale uplift that they really needed.

Your argument as to Iraqi culture is most persuasive.  America’s modern, quick changing culture can seemingly change over night.  In contrast, Iraq’s tribal/religious culture seems highly resistant to modernity.  We were naive to think otherwise.