Comments on: Obama and Faith-Based Initatives

By: Chuck Norton

Chuck Norton — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 17:12:28 +0000

Allow me to explain my zeal on this particular issue. It is no secret that I have become a known activist in the matter of campus free speech. Most universities take taxpayer money to some degree. Leftist students and faculty/administration have repeatedly tried to take control of conservative student groups and religious students groups by force of numbers, and attempt to elect themselves to the leadership of those student groups, solely for the purpose of keeping them from expressing their message or having any campus activities. When the victimized student groups resists the student government and or university administration would cry “discrimination” and yank their funding and ban them from campus. This is a pattern of behavior that we see over and over and over again. I have cataloged dozens and dozens of such cases. This has forced such groups to sue, and they win in court over and over because the First Amendment is clear. Here is one such case here http://www.centerforacademicfreedom.org/news/default.aspx?cid=299 The truth is that to force a group to take in members who are hostile to their mission is religious bigotry and/or an attempt to silence those with just such a mission. It is censorship.

By: Chuck Norton

Chuck Norton — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 16:54:17 +0000

Claudia, you have made it clear that you do not believe in freedom of expressive association. So tell me, how many other freedoms guaranteed by the Bill of Rights should be surrendered by anyone participating in the public sector? So bye-bye Salvation Army and prison ministries that have the BEST offender non-recidivism rate of any prison program. No more faith based drug-rehab programs whose success rate is not in dispute. Are not people of faith taxpayers as well? You believe in separation of church and state, but doesn’t that separation go both ways? Obviously not if the government can tell church groups who they can hire. How can you make the case that a government who can tell charities and church groups who they can HIRE is in any way a limited one? I challenge you to answer these questions directly and specifically.

By: Michael Merritt

Michael Merritt — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 15:25:40 +0000

Oh, and as for McCain, I know he’s more secular. In some ways, I like that, since I am for a more secular government (in operation, not who it hires). Yet, he’s going to loose a lot of ground if he doesn’t try and reach out.

By: Michael Merritt

Michael Merritt — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 15:23:06 +0000

Yea, I don’t know how I feel about the hiring requirements. A mosque is probably not going to hire a Christian any more than a church is going to hire a Muslim. As is already pointed out, there’s laws against forced hiring standards for religious groups. I wouldn’t have a problem with the status quo there. That said, I would like any federal funding to be used for secular programs.

Back when I was young and naive, faith-based initiatives seemed like a no-no to me. Then I grew up. But, I’m still an agnostic, so I would want my tax money going toward programs with a religious slant.

By: Connor

Connor — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 11:49:21 +0000

No kidding McCain is secular; the more conservative and religious Republicans have been reluctant to embrace him for a reason.

Glad to see Obama talking about working with religious groups, although I too wonder if this will lead to government interference in religious organizations.

I wonder if his newfound enthusiasm for religious groups will extend to providing vouchers for religious schools; I could sure use the help.

By: RRRocks

RRRocks — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 10:30:30 +0000

DOA.

Why is it that the Democratic party continues to have this incessant need to be a super nanny?

The religious right is laughing at this yet it is very astute politically. He is offering once again a bone to the moderates and is trying to justify the work he did for the last 20 years with his own politically active church.

While I do not oppose faith based initiatives I find that if you start regulating them then you are in effect asking religion to become a state sponsored program and once you do that then its gotcha for them.

Grant money used for works is one thing. Grant money used that forces a religion to then become subject to all the government nanny policies is nothing more then a huge desire to have state sponsored religion.

His heart is in the right place but once again this is another policy position that is just not very well thought out and is intended to try and reconcile base groups that he is trying to appease. The far left who are notoriously anti religion if not downright atheist and those White voters who tend to go to church and do churchy things.

By: Michael van der Galien, Editor-in-Chief

Michael van der Galien, Editor-in-Chief — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 10:22:49 +0000

In other words, it’s also a means for the government to creep into charities, faith-based charities on that. All in all, double bad.

By: Claudia, Assistant Editor

Claudia, Assistant Editor — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 09:50:20 +0000

Chuck and Michael, the non-discriminatory hiring practice rule is perfectly reasonable in the context of what he’s proposing. Religious organizations would be forced to be non-discriminatory in hiring ONLY in those activities that are receiving public funds. That is, if the Catholic Church wants to exclude women from the priesthood, that’s there business. Now, if they want to exclude them from a charity group that receives federal funding, that’s another matter. The government shouldn’t be in the business of subsidizing activities with discriminatory policies.

If the religious group simply can’t stand the idea of hiring or giving charity to groups or individuals on the basis of religious prejudice, fine (well, not fine, but certainly legal), they simply can go about their charity business without taxpayer money.

By: Michael van der Galien, Editor-in-Chief

Michael van der Galien, Editor-in-Chief — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 09:36:02 +0000

I agree with that Chuck; religious organizations are free, and should be free, to hire who they want. If they don’t want to hire people who aren’t of their religion, they’ve got every right to do so. After all, it’s a religious organization.

What’s next? The Catholic Church will be sued for refusing to elect a Hindu as the new Pope?

By: Chuck Norton

Chuck Norton — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 08:45:19 +0000

Obama says, "or against the people you hire – on the basis of their religion." Constitutional Law and Supreme Court decisions all say that religious groups CAN descriminate on who they hire. Its called freedom of expressive association. It is a right guaranteed by the First Amendment. If you are a Christian group for example, you do not have to hire radical Muslims or athiests etc or anyone who is hostile to your mission. Religious groups wont back down to this, they will sue. Obama knows it and after seeing this quote of his religious groups who do charity now know that he is out to destroy them. See Supreme Court decision BSA v. Dale - http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/99-699.ZO.html