Obama Denounces Wright, not just his statements
Filed under: 2008 elections, Barack Obama, Democratic party — Claudia, Assistant Editor on April 30, 2008 @ 3:13 pm CEST
Obama’s patience for his egomaniacal pastor has finally run out. Money quotes:
“His comments were not only divisive and destructive, but I believe that they end up giving comfort to those who prey on hate, and I believe that they do not portray accurately the perspective of the black church,”
when he states and then amplifies such ridiculous propositions as the U.S. government somehow being involved in AIDS, when he suggests that Minister Farrakhan somehow represents one of the greatest voices of the 20th and 21st centuries, when he equates the United States wartime efforts with terrorism, then there are no excuses.
And especially
And if Reverend Wright thinks that that’s political posturing, as he put it, then he doesn’t know me very well. And based on his remarks yesterday, well, I may not know him as well as I thought either
This is not a “kinda” denunciation, this is breaking with the man, entirely. Obama is clearly upset and angry. People who support him will say that it’s because he’s genuinely surprised and disappointed at the behaviour of his pastor. People who oppose him will say that he’s upset because of the political liability and because he’s been “found out” as a white-hater in disguise (hey, who gives a damn about the whole REST of Obama’s life, whis proves he’s a horrible man!). I think it’s a bit of a combination. I think he was aware that his pastor had several distasteful opinions, but is genuinely surprised that a man he considered a friend would betray him, throwing him under a bus in the interest of attention seeking, after Obama refused to throw him under a bus, which would have been the politically convenient thing to do. Of course he’s also naturally upset, not just at the actions and words, but the timing, which are terrible.
In the light of the fact that the video of Obama’s pastor really aren’t a twisting of his actual personality but a distillation of it, a few thoughts, and an ammendment to my previous position.
I have no idea why Obama stuck to this guy for so long, but I consider it a lapse of judgement. It could well be that Wright has taken a turn sharply for the worse, but I find it hard to believe that the man was 180º different from the dirty spectacle he is today. This was a bad judgement call for Obama, no question.
I do not believe Obama is a racist, or a person who likes division or that the opinions of Wright can be transferred to him. In fact I find the very idea absurd. Literally everything else in Obama’s life contradicts what Wright appears to stand for. Wright is the anomaly, not the rule which actually makes his continuation (until now, thank goodness) in Obama’s life more of a mystery.
Wright is not running for president. Wright is, as Jon Stewart so brilliantly put it, the pastor who used to preach at the church a presidential candidate used to attend. Attacking Wright is warranted, and questioning Obama’s judgement in this case is as well, but using Wrights position as if he were a surrogate of Obama’s positions is dishonest in the extreme. There is no indication that Obama shares a single one of Wrights more disgusting beliefs, and the Wright issue is being kept alive (in part by Wright himself) as a way of hurting Obama.
1 C Stanley
April 30, 2008 @ 3:25 pm CESTPeople who oppose him will say that he’s upset because of the political liability and because he’s been “found out” as a white-hater in disguise (hey, who gives a damn about the whole REST of Obama’s life, whis proves he’s a horrible man!).
I suppose there may be a few people who believe that, but the vast majority of Obama’s opponents get it a lot more than you give us credit for, Claudia. For us, it’s always been about the judgment of choosing to assign importance to this man (because regardless of Obama’s attempts now to downplay his relationship, Obama himself created this Frankenstein by building up Wright as a key influential person in his life.) It’s always been the judgment (which fortunately even you can now see is an issue), not whether or not Obama himself believes the more noxious things that Wright says. It’s about whether or not he’s willing to stand up to that, not whether or not he agrees with that worldview.
2 Michael van der Galien
April 30, 2008 @ 3:30 pm CESTExactly Christine. And that’s what his supporters don’t seem to (want to) understand.
This man constantly said "experience doesn’t count, judgment does."
Yeah, well, his problem is that his judgment is horrendous.
O, and when your pastor is a racist anti-Semitic anti-American, you may consider walking out.
3 Michael van der Galien
April 30, 2008 @ 3:31 pm CESTJay C. puts it quite well in the other thread:
4 Michael van der Galien
April 30, 2008 @ 3:39 pm CESTReally? Such as…
Right.
And Obama went to Wright’s church for 20 years. Wright has always stood for this (he says so himself). Obama, then, is a worse hypocrite than most of us, since only a few of us would be willing to put up with a racist pastor (to convince people of our color that we’re one of them, which would help us politically).
That’s the result of your reasoning Claudia. He was a fake in church… or he doesn’t find it that offensive, he just distances himself from Wright because he has to.
It’s one of the two options. Which one will Obama supporters choose?
My guess? Fake in Church. Most of them are not church goers anyway.
5 C Stanley
April 30, 2008 @ 3:40 pm CESTWell, see my comment in that other thread in response to Jay’s though. I think the one thing that has changed is that Obama and Wright now see each other differently; each, I think, had an incorrect understanding of where the other stood. Their eyes have been open to each other. I’m not saying that Obama didn’t know what Wright has been saying all along (that defies credulity) but that Obama didn’t realize the extent to which Wright really believes all of that. And Wright, I think, thought that Obama did believe it to but would just act as a politician- and he doesn’t seem to understand that Obama was actually acting more like a politician when he pretended to see the world the way Wright does, in order to be part of the TUCC community.
6 C Stanley
April 30, 2008 @ 3:43 pm CESTAlso, Michael, in regard to being fake in church, there is a quote from Obama about how he came to be a member of TUCC. In the interview, he talks about how he was trying to involve the area’s churches in community organizing, and at some point someone said to him, ‘You know, it might help if you were actually a member of a church yourself." This was his impetus to seek out TUCC and get involved. Now, I won’t go so far as to judge whether or not he’s a true believer- that’s between him and God. But certainly his actions seem more consistent with someone who was using church membership as a means to another end.
7 Michael van der Galien
April 30, 2008 @ 3:44 pm CESTThat doesn’t make sense. He’s a pastor. Who adheres to a radical ideology. Of course Obama knew what Wright believed, and knew that he truly believed what he said. If he thought differently, well, that speaks volumes about Obama; seemingly he has no problem with a pastor lying to his flock.
I think that this is indeed what happened. And I also think that this is one of the main reasons that Wright has gone after Obama. Basically, Obama has listened to Wright for 20 years, he has been active in the Church for 20 years, the Church has given him many, many votes in the past… and now Obama suddenly distances himself from Wright, seemingly because he disagrees with Wright’s views (duh).
That would infuriate any pastor, wouldn’t it?
And, again, it tells me a lot about the man Barack Obama. He’s willing to put up with Anti-American, Anti-Semitic, Black Supremacist religious extremists, if it helps him politically.
O, and he’s more than willing to fake what he believes.
Yeah, that’s a person for the presidency!
8 Michael van der Galien
April 30, 2008 @ 3:46 pm CESTHe also has said that Wright and that Church have helped him find Jesus, and become a religious person.
If that’s not the case, he is a fake, and I have no problem saying it.
There’s another option, of course, which I have mentioned. Obama supporters have to make a choice. Which one will it be ladies and gents.
9 Claudia
April 30, 2008 @ 3:47 pm CESTNo it does not, I only have to come to that "logical" conclusion if I already have a borderline paranoid hatred of Obama.
Why did he stay in church? Well, I don’t know, and neither do you Michael, as much as you pretend to. If I had to guess I’d say he probably stayed out of a sense of community. He would stay because it was part of his life as a community organizer, and because it was the first place he became religious and he felt tied to the people (other faithful) there, and tolerated the situation because of that.
It could well be that Wright’s message has hardened over the years and that he hasn’t always been SUCH a nutjob (though I doubt he was ever Mr. Serene). If anything, I would question just how often Obama has gone to his church these past years. Being a senator he has to spend most of his time in Washington anyway, but even before as a state senator, I would question the frequency of his churchgoing (though I suppose that’s fairly easily verifiable).
C. Stanley yes, I recognize it as a lapse of judgement. Of course, that he has A lapse of judgement does not instantly translate into being a person who has a large PROBLEM with judgement. I consider this to be an aspect of Obama’s life that is not his best, but that it does not reflect his entire person. I find the whole issue to be blown WAY out of proportion (notably on this blog, often enough) partly because going after Wright as a proxy to Obama (never mind they are two VERY different people) is much easier than trying to go after Obama and his, you know, actual opinions, positions and actions.
10 C Stanley
April 30, 2008 @ 3:49 pm CESTHmm, maybe I’m not stating it well. What I mean about Obama thinking that Wright didn’t actually believe everything he says is that I don’t think Obama fully has appreciated (until now) how invested Wright is in this kind of thinking. That he sees no room for a different worldview which doesn’t pit ‘the oppressed’ against the ‘oppressor’. No room at all- if Obama won’t espouse that view (or admit that he only denies it for political expediency) then Wright sees no reason to support his candidacy. It’s the old "Uncle Tom" canard all over again; Wright is one of those black leaders who thinks that a black who doesn’t want to blame everything on ‘whitey’ isn’t authentically black anyway and therefore isn’t worth supporting.
I don’t think Obama fully realized this- or else why would he have thought he could get away with his soft criticism of Wright and think that it wasn’t going to come back and bite him?
11 Claudia
April 30, 2008 @ 3:54 pm CESTI hadn’t thought of that, but it sounds fairly reasonable to me. I’m glad I can find a point of agreement on the subject lol
I think in the case of Wright it’s also a matter of his hugely inflated ego. He doesn’t like the attention that Obama is getting, and I’m sure he ESPECIALLY doesn’t like how Obama’s message of healing and unity seems to be resonating with so many people, especially within the black community. A message of healing runs exactly contrary to Wrights message, and I’m sure he doesn’t enjoy the fact that people seem more and more ready to leave him behind
12 C Stanley
April 30, 2008 @ 3:55 pm CESTC. Stanley yes, I recognize it as a lapse of judgement. Of course, that he has A lapse of judgement does not instantly translate into being a person who has a large PROBLEM with judgement.
Perhaps it doesn’t automatically translate that way to you, but to me the translation is clear. Why? Because it’s absurd to think that for the first serious African American presidential candidate, his views on racial politics wouldn’t be keenly important. For him, this was an area on which he needed to display good judgment and he failed the test miserably. In doing so, he seems to have shown that he doesn’t understand that extremists have to be marginalized and when you befriend them and tell everyone that we should all just have understanding for them- without simultaneously condemning their hate filled rhetoric and tactics- you only strengthen them.
Like it or not, this does go to his judgment in a very big way. You may be willing to overlook it or see it as one isolated example, but many of us our not. You can claim that this is just a bias, but it’s a real issue because the way that a president chooses to deal with agitators IS important.
13 Michael van der Galien
April 30, 2008 @ 3:56 pm CESTLOL. Yeah.
What was that with Ron Paul and racists again? Yeah.. but Obama’s different right?
YEah. He became religious in a racist Church, led by a racist pastor… who was also an anti-Semite. But he stayed because of what you say. Right. That makes sense. Especially because other Churches don’t do anything for the community.
How about, just about every week?
He doesn’t have any ‘actions’ we can look at. Only words. And his words are in contradiction with the few actions he has made.
For instance:
- lobbyists
- Tony Rezko
- Ayers
- Rev. Jeremiah Wright
Those are his true actions. And they matter.
There’s literally no question in my mind that if this wasn’t Obama but, say, a Republican we’d be talking about, you and others would be demanding that person to withdraw from the race.
14 Michael van der Galien
April 30, 2008 @ 3:58 pm CESTPerhaps it’s important to point out that Obama believed that Wright represents the entire black community and that Wright is basically the black version of his very own grandmother?
15 C Stanley
April 30, 2008 @ 3:59 pm CESTI think in the case of Wright it’s also a matter of his hugely inflated ego. He doesn’t like the attention that Obama is getting, and I’m sure he ESPECIALLY doesn’t like how Obama’s message of healing and unity seems to be resonating with so many people, especially within the black community. A message of healing runs exactly contrary to Wrights message, and I’m sure he doesn’t enjoy the fact that people seem more and more ready to leave him behind
Well, gee, I can’t imagine why he has such a big ego. It’s not like a presidential candidate has been talking up how important he’s been to that candidate personally and to the community in the south side of Chicago or anything.
Dr. E wrote a good post over at TMV- using the old story of the bucket of crabs as analogy for a minority community, and every time one crab is climbing out the others feel threatened and pull that crab back down. I commented that also, the ‘crab leaders’ are so invested in their importance to the community that is trapped in the bucket, that they perversely end up needing to keep all of the crabs in the bucket. That’s how I see black leaders like Wright. If blacks move toward parity and equality, then where will he derive his importance from?