Comments on: VA official accused of covering up suicide rates http://poligazette.com/2008/04/25/va-official-accused-of-covering-up-suicide-rates/ Politics and world events from a moderately liberal and conservative perspective Wed, 08 Oct 2008 07:14:16 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2 By: Tully http://poligazette.com/2008/04/25/va-official-accused-of-covering-up-suicide-rates/#comment-44348 Tully Sat, 26 Apr 2008 19:54:07 +0000 http://poligazette.com/2008/04/25/va-official-accused-of-covering-up-suicide-rates/#comment-44348 It's critical of the government, so it MUST be TRUE! Try applying some basic analysis here, folks. <em>Another e-mail said an average of 18 war veterans kill themselves each day</em> First off, one would like some actual confirmation that the emails themsevles are genuine and that the quotations are precise. Note for example the difference between "war veterans" and "veterans." Next, some serious confirmation that they are based on ACTUAL DATA and are not someone talking out of their posterior orifice. Because, you see, <a href="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/04/22/MNQK109AA7.DTL" rel="nofollow">there's an awful lot of bullshit being claimed in the media that is demonstrably untrue</a>, and the corrections when actually made never seem  to be noticed, while the bullshit claims live forever. Lastly, some demographic context needs to be provided in assessing suicide rates. Last fall CBS took the preliminary breakout on this story and ran stories claiming that the suicide rates among Iraq/Afghanistan veterans were elevated. Problem was, when you broke out the data and compared the rate against those of <em>the same age groups and demographic composition</em> as veterans, the suicide rate for returning Iraq/Afghanistan veterans was LOWER than that for the same demographics groups who were NOT veterans. Lesson: One cannot compare veteran's rates against the population at large, but must compare them against the rates for <em>their demographic groups</em>. 23-yr-old males have higher incidence of suicide than 68-yr-old females. Why should 23-yr-old male veterans be compared to 68-yr-old women when assessing rates? THEY SHOULDN'T. That's what technically call "bullshit analysis." Far and away the highest suicide rates are found among white males 65 and older, who have suicide rates four times as high <em>and higher</em> than those of the population as a whole. Anyone want to take a wild-ass guess as to what percentage of American veterans are white males 65 and older? <strong>37%.</strong> Over one out of three American veterans is a white male 65 or older. Gee, do you think that might skew the stats just a <em>little</em> bit when comparing veterans to the population as a whole? Why, from the amount of hyperbolic ranting going on, one might almost think this is an election year! :-0 It’s critical of the government, so it MUST be TRUE! Try applying some basic analysis here, folks.

Another e-mail said an average of 18 war veterans kill themselves each day

First off, one would like some actual confirmation that the emails themsevles are genuine and that the quotations are precise. Note for example the difference between "war veterans" and "veterans." Next, some serious confirmation that they are based on ACTUAL DATA and are not someone talking out of their posterior orifice. Because, you see, there’s an awful lot of bullshit being claimed in the media that is demonstrably untrue, and the corrections when actually made never seem  to be noticed, while the bullshit claims live forever. Lastly, some demographic context needs to be provided in assessing suicide rates.

Last fall CBS took the preliminary breakout on this story and ran stories claiming that the suicide rates among Iraq/Afghanistan veterans were elevated. Problem was, when you broke out the data and compared the rate against those of the same age groups and demographic composition as veterans, the suicide rate for returning Iraq/Afghanistan veterans was LOWER than that for the same demographics groups who were NOT veterans.

Lesson: One cannot compare veteran’s rates against the population at large, but must compare them against the rates for their demographic groups. 23-yr-old males have higher incidence of suicide than 68-yr-old females. Why should 23-yr-old male veterans be compared to 68-yr-old women when assessing rates? THEY SHOULDN’T. That’s what technically call "bullshit analysis."

Far and away the highest suicide rates are found among white males 65 and older, who have suicide rates four times as high and higher than those of the population as a whole. Anyone want to take a wild-ass guess as to what percentage of American veterans are white males 65 and older?

37%. Over one out of three American veterans is a white male 65 or older. Gee, do you think that might skew the stats just a little bit when comparing veterans to the population as a whole?

Why, from the amount of hyperbolic ranting going on, one might almost think this is an election year! :-0

]]> By: Claudia http://poligazette.com/2008/04/25/va-official-accused-of-covering-up-suicide-rates/#comment-44135 Claudia Fri, 25 Apr 2008 17:46:47 +0000 http://poligazette.com/2008/04/25/va-official-accused-of-covering-up-suicide-rates/#comment-44135 The cover-up itself if scandalous, and the fact that the very same guy BLASTED CBS when it reported just the same issue, saying that it wasn't true (also known as lying through his teeth). But what's much worse is the suicide rate itself. I don't know how much something like this can be prevented, but as far as it can be prevented, resources MUST be alloted so it is. Jason, if you read this, didn't you do a post, or maybe a comment, about veteran mental health issues? My feeling is that were are woefully lacking in the mental care we give our veterans, but I'll admit it's based more on a vague feeling of the matter than actual knowledge. The cover-up itself if scandalous, and the fact that the very same guy BLASTED CBS when it reported just the same issue, saying that it wasn’t true (also known as lying through his teeth). But what’s much worse is the suicide rate itself. I don’t know how much something like this can be prevented, but as far as it can be prevented, resources MUST be alloted so it is.

Jason, if you read this, didn’t you do a post, or maybe a comment, about veteran mental health issues? My feeling is that were are woefully lacking in the mental care we give our veterans, but I’ll admit it’s based more on a vague feeling of the matter than actual knowledge.

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