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	<title>Comments on: Protesting &#8220;Fitna&#8221;</title>
	<link>http://poligazette.com/2008/03/31/protesting-fitna/</link>
	<description>Politics and world events from a moderately liberal and conservative perspective</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 18:31:08 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2</generator>
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		<title>By: Caspar ter Horst</title>
		<link>http://poligazette.com/2008/03/31/protesting-fitna/#comment-37935</link>
		<dc:creator>Caspar ter Horst</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 09:24:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://poligazette.com/2008/03/31/protesting-fitna/#comment-37935</guid>
		<description>The trouble is that there is no visual statement against the fitna. If fitna is the word for polarisation, individualism, not understanding, then nofitna shall be the word for understanding, cooperation even peace. With NOFITNA you can show you have your heart on the right place. It is not about politic or religion just about a personal statement. I felt the need to say something.Caspar</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The trouble is that there is no visual statement against the fitna. If fitna is the word for polarisation, individualism, not understanding, then nofitna shall be the word for understanding, cooperation even peace. With NOFITNA you can show you have your heart on the right place. It is not about politic or religion just about a personal statement. I felt the need to say something.Caspar</p>
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		<title>By: Michael van der Galien</title>
		<link>http://poligazette.com/2008/03/31/protesting-fitna/#comment-37342</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael van der Galien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 20:39:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://poligazette.com/2008/03/31/protesting-fitna/#comment-37342</guid>
		<description>Mark. Read my &lt;a href="../../28/two-reviews-of-fitna/" rel="nofollow"&gt;review&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark. Read my <a href="../../28/two-reviews-of-fitna/" rel="nofollow">review</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Smith</title>
		<link>http://poligazette.com/2008/03/31/protesting-fitna/#comment-37341</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 20:37:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://poligazette.com/2008/03/31/protesting-fitna/#comment-37341</guid>
		<description>Hi

A few points:

1) You say &#34;'Fitna' distorts Islam. It cherrypicks from the Koran&#34;
You do realise that Muslims believe in the doctrine of abrogation?
That means if the Quran gives contradictory revelations, the later revelation stands. And it is the case, that the Median suras (the war-like suras) came later than the Meccan suras (the peaceful suras). Sura 9 is said to be penutimate sura revealed to Muhammad and all non-Muslims should read it. Sura 9:5 is said to abrogate 124 peaceful verses (ayas).

2) Everyone should ask themselves whether Muhammad was an Islamist or jihadist or salafist.  And if the answer is &#34;yes he was&#34;, how do you expect moderateness to &lt;strong&gt;ever&lt;/strong&gt; arise of Islam? And the answer is &#34;yes he was&#34;, the moment he consolidated his power base at Medina.
 
3) I dont see that Fitna distorts Islam. The first 4 Caliphs after Muhammads death were Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman &#38; Ali. They were men who having lived in the time of Muhammad, could not possibly misunderstood him. Yet in their time, Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Morocco, Israel, Lebanon, Syria, Sicily were invaded, plundered, non-Muslim women raped and the population put to the sword. That was their understanding of Islam. And shortly after France was invaded and Spain was subjected to Muslim rule for 800 years. The Christian Crusades, a response to this  lasted a maximum of 197 years. In contrast, there were repeated raids by Muslims on Europe for at least 1081 years. Europeans have forgotten this. They need to remember.

The film Fitna is consistent with Muhammads later messages after Medina, consistent with Hadiths from Salih Bukhari and Salih Muslim, consistent with Ibn Ishaks Sirat, consistent with history (particularly in the time of the first four Caliphs) and consistent with the 4 schools of Islamic jurisprudence.

I would invite you to look at the following Hadith by Salih Muslim:
&lt;a&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;em&gt;Book 019, Number 4294: &lt;/em&gt;
&lt;a href="http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/019.smt.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/019.smt.html&lt;/a&gt;
and note that if non-Muslims do not wish to become Muslims not pay a tax to Muslims (jizya), then it commands Muslims to &#34;If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them&#34;

So your analysis is faulty. You see what you want to see. 
It is like Neville Chamberlain in 1938. A study of the Quran, Hadiths, Sirat and history will confirm that Islam is totalitarian and I mean Islam not Islamism. The fact that many Muslims are decent human beings is because they are &lt;strong&gt;not&lt;/strong&gt; following their religion.

Mark Smith</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi</p>
<p>A few points:</p>
<p>1) You say &quot;&#8217;Fitna&#8217; distorts Islam. It cherrypicks from the Koran&quot;<br />
You do realise that Muslims believe in the doctrine of abrogation?<br />
That means if the Quran gives contradictory revelations, the later revelation stands. And it is the case, that the Median suras (the war-like suras) came later than the Meccan suras (the peaceful suras). Sura 9 is said to be penutimate sura revealed to Muhammad and all non-Muslims should read it. Sura 9:5 is said to abrogate 124 peaceful verses (ayas).</p>
<p>2) Everyone should ask themselves whether Muhammad was an Islamist or jihadist or salafist.  And if the answer is &quot;yes he was&quot;, how do you expect moderateness to <strong>ever</strong> arise of Islam? And the answer is &quot;yes he was&quot;, the moment he consolidated his power base at Medina.<br />
 <br />
3) I dont see that Fitna distorts Islam. The first 4 Caliphs after Muhammads death were Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman &amp; Ali. They were men who having lived in the time of Muhammad, could not possibly misunderstood him. Yet in their time, Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Morocco, Israel, Lebanon, Syria, Sicily were invaded, plundered, non-Muslim women raped and the population put to the sword. That was their understanding of Islam. And shortly after France was invaded and Spain was subjected to Muslim rule for 800 years. The Christian Crusades, a response to this  lasted a maximum of 197 years. In contrast, there were repeated raids by Muslims on Europe for at least 1081 years. Europeans have forgotten this. They need to remember.</p>
<p>The film Fitna is consistent with Muhammads later messages after Medina, consistent with Hadiths from Salih Bukhari and Salih Muslim, consistent with Ibn Ishaks Sirat, consistent with history (particularly in the time of the first four Caliphs) and consistent with the 4 schools of Islamic jurisprudence.</p>
<p>I would invite you to look at the following Hadith by Salih Muslim:<br />
<a></a><em>Book 019, Number 4294: </em><br />
<a href="http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/019.smt.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/019.smt.html</a><br />
and note that if non-Muslims do not wish to become Muslims not pay a tax to Muslims (jizya), then it commands Muslims to &quot;If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah&#8217;s help and fight them&quot;</p>
<p>So your analysis is faulty. You see what you want to see.<br />
It is like Neville Chamberlain in 1938. A study of the Quran, Hadiths, Sirat and history will confirm that Islam is totalitarian and I mean Islam not Islamism. The fact that many Muslims are decent human beings is because they are <strong>not</strong> following their religion.</p>
<p>Mark Smith</p>
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