Fitna Online
Filed under: Feature, General News — Michael van der Galien, Editor-in-Chief on March 27, 2008 @ 8:24 pm CET
UPDATED SEVERAL TIMES BELOW: DUTCH MUSLIM ORGANIZATION GOES TO COURT
Geert Wilders has put his movie “Fitna” online. You can watch it here at this blog, but before you can watch it I want to make something very clear. That we publish this movie at this site does not, in any way whatsoever, mean that we endorse Wilders’ views. In fact, many of us - including myself - disagree very strongly with him. However, since Wilders and “Fitna” have been in the news for months, and since his film is part of a bigger debate about Islam and the integration of Muslims in Western European countries, we consider it justified to publish the film nonetheless.
Our intention is not to insult anyone.
Via Gateway Pundit: this moment, a Muslim group has already taken action. “A Dutch judge is due on Friday to hear the petition of a Muslim group seeking an independent review of an anti-Quran film by lawmaker Geert Wilders to see whether it violates hate speech laws.”
UPDATE II
Since “Fitna” loads quite slowly, you can download its torrent (via Hot Air). Also via Hot Air a statement of LiveLeak.com; they explain why they decided to publish the movie.
LiveLeak.com has a strict stance on remaining unbiased and allowing freedom of speech as so far as the law and our rules allow. There was no legal reason to refuse Geert Wilders the right to post his film (Fitna) on LiveLeak.com and it is not our place to censor people based on an emotive response. We in no way endorse Geert Wilders, his views, nor the views expressed within Fitna. To many of us involved in LiveLeak.com some of the messages therein are personally offensive. That being said, our being offended is no reason to deny Mr Wilders the right to have his film seen. Pre-emptive censorship or a discriminatory policy towards freedom of speech are both things we oppose here on LiveLeak.com. A person has a simple, clear choice about whether to view this film. No one is being forced to view it and nor is it being broadcasted on every channel on their television set. If you click on media simply to be annoyed, it is pointless to blame others for your choice.
We do not intend on defending the content of Fitna, only our choice to allow it. Anyone has the full right of reply on LiveLeak.com. Any person or organizations are free to post their opinion and, dependent on said response falling within both the law and our rules, we will afford such responses equal exposure. There are undoubtedly better ways to spark a discussion but this film is now out there and we believe we should all grasp this opportunity to create an open dialogue and discussion on this subject.
UPDATE III
Moderate Muslim Ali Eteraz weighs in:
I just watched Geert Wilders’ film, Fitna, The Movie. My initial reaction is a yawn. No surprise, of course. The soundtrack is Tchaikovsky’s mellow classical piece called “Arab Dance.” Quick tip to future demagogues: when trying to incite riots, try not to use musical pieces that are based on Georgian lullabies.
Anyone who has seen terrorist propaganda films is familiar with most of the scenes and most of the disgusting conflations of the Quran with acts of violence, murder, kidnapping and anti-semitism. Such behavior has been condemned resoundingly among Muslims. Those that use the Quran for illegitimate and criminal ends should be punished by the fullest extent of the law.
What I’m really wondering: is Wilders’ protesting against Islam or the monopoly extremists already have over grainy, low-budget, youtube videos? The only difference I see is that Wilders plays the best of Western classical music — an insult to the legacy of Tchaikovsky — than death chants. I guess the thing he can be credited with is upping the sound quality. Also the transubstantiation of “Fitna” into “Fin” at the end was pretty cool.
1 Luis Neiva
March 27, 2008 @ 7:39 pm CETThank you for publishing it!Denying access to information is also a crime. A serious one.
2 Jock Herrer
March 27, 2008 @ 8:12 pm CETWell done Geert! I hope you are all tucked up in your nice secure country mansion, whilst the rest of us in Holland still use the buses and trains everyday cautiously, you bloody coward.
3 Michael van der Galien
March 27, 2008 @ 8:17 pm CETJust a note: I’ve just written an article for Pajamas Media about the movie. When they publish it, I will link to it.
It’s a long article, with lots more information - and a summary of the movie and its main message
4 Sam
March 27, 2008 @ 8:18 pm CETBravo! Nothing I have not already seen or understood but you can never get enough of it. To become complacent is to welcome the enemy.
5 anton
March 27, 2008 @ 8:19 pm CETInformation?? This is hate speech.
Thanks for letting a deranged, right-wing xenophobe spread his hate message via your blog. What a great public service you’re providing!
Can’t hardly wait for other hate-filled short films — anti-Jew, anti-gay, anti-Tutsi, anti-Hindu, anti-you-pick-your-group-to-hate — to be broadcast via poligazette.
"Our intention is not to insult anyone."
What a hypocritical joke…
6 Jock Herrer
March 27, 2008 @ 8:26 pm CETHear here Anton. Freedom of speech is one thing if it’s only your own neck on the line for it. This film, regardless of whether it is right or wrong, has now placed the Dutch people at a greater risk of a terrorist attack.It is by the goodness of God that, in this country, we have three benefits: freedom of speech, freedom of thought, and the wisdom never to use either." - Mark Twain
7 Jason
March 27, 2008 @ 8:28 pm CETYes, PoliGazette is widely known for anti-Tutsi sentiment.
ROFL
8 Shaf islam
March 27, 2008 @ 8:28 pm CETThis film insulted me. It is a hate film. It is a hate crime. A lot of other religious people are killing each other, it does not mean his or her religion we need to include. It is not a freedom of expression. Hitler did say a lot of speeces. Should we consider those as part of freedom. No and never. One third populations is being insulted. Islam means peace. If people bring other than peach, it goes to individuals, not entire populations. There fore, it is fully a hatefull film. No more hate, we all belong to a one father and a mother. Love to all.
9 Wake up America-Fitna Released
March 27, 2008 @ 8:29 pm CETGeert Wilders’ Fitna Film Released- Liveleak Versi…
Other portions shows a Jihadist declaring they will rule the work, “We will take over the USA!!”, “We will take over the UK!”, “We will take over Europe!”, and “You will defeat them all and you will get victory!”….
10 Jason
March 27, 2008 @ 8:29 pm CETAnything you disagree with is a "hate crime"?
Not much room for free speech in that little universe of yours.
11 Brian
March 27, 2008 @ 8:29 pm CETAnton, you clearly are not leaving in reality. This film quotes the Koran and Islamic clerics. If you think it is hate speach then you need to condemn the Koran/Hadith and the clerics. Anton, it appears that you haven’t ever picked up a Koran and read it. Mohamud is without a doubt a murderer, theif, rapist, and child predator, and it is ALL IN THE KORAN/HADITH. Get a clue.
12 Christopher Taylor
March 27, 2008 @ 8:30 pm CET“Information?? This is hate speech.”
Translation: I haven’t seen this but have been told by my masters that it is bad.
13 yonason
March 27, 2008 @ 8:33 pm CETWORDS OF A SAUDI CHIEF JUSTICE
"And you will not find any organization past or present, religious or nonreligious as regards (Jihad and military) (ordering) the whole nation to march forth and mobilize all of them. into active military service as a single row for Jihad in Allah’s Cause so as to make superior the Word of Allah>/b> (i.e. none has the right to be worshipped but Allah), as you will find in the Islamic Religion and its teachings."
14 Brian
March 27, 2008 @ 8:34 pm CETShaf, I’m glad the film insulted you. Your "prophet", who has sex with 9 year old girls, who rapes the wives of men he killed, etc, etc, …your "prophet" insults me.
15 Tony
March 27, 2008 @ 8:44 pm CETyou can view the movie ‘Fitna" at liveleak.com
16 anton
March 27, 2008 @ 8:47 pm CET(Christopher Taylor: Actually, I did watch the movie. What a stupid remark, considering that FITNA is available on this very site!)
Now, anti-Muslim bigots bitch about Mohamed and the tenets of Islam. "It’s all in the Koran!" Have any of you people read the Bible?? Have you seen what’s there?
How about the Good Lord that slaughtered all of humankind (and animalkind) — apart from those on the Ark? Anyone offended by that? Through the centuries, how many wars have been waged in the name of Christianity or by Christian nations?
People are such filthy hypocrites. Wilders sure knows his audience. And you bigots are NO different than the fanatics on the other side. In fact, you’re ALL on the same side.
My only hope is that you’ll destroy yourselves before you destroy us all. Better yet, you could all move to another planet an hate one another on Mars or Jupiter, leaving behind those Earthlings — no matter their religion, if any — who want to live in peace.
And thanks again to poligazette for spreading The Word. As I’ve already said, can’t hardly wait for more dishonest, insane, hate-filled short flicks on this blog.
17 Tankcdr
March 27, 2008 @ 8:49 pm CETWhy would Muslims be upset about this film. It espouses exactly what they believe in. They should give this film maker an award. The film is very informative, and should serve as a reminder of Radical islam’s purpose and intentions. BRAVO!!
18 Jock Herrer
March 27, 2008 @ 8:50 pm CETSo let me get this straight. Geert Wilders releases a film that he knows is going to offend loads of muslims, and does so arguing his right to "freedom of speech". Yet at the same time, he wants part of the Koran to be banned in Holland. Right… May I just exercise my freedom of speech as say that I think Geert Wilders is a hypocritical @#€#.
[admin]: Took me a while to find it. Comment edited for obscenities etc. etc. If you can’t tell the difference between the movie and a comments policy on a blog, I can’t help you.
19 Brian
March 27, 2008 @ 8:56 pm CETAnton, interesting. I make the claim that the Koran/Hadith supports the fact that Mohumad was a murdering, raping, child molester, and your come back was Noah’s Ark and that you hope we all destroy each other or move to another planet. Strong hate speach from someone who in their first post was so opposed to hate speach. YOU are the hypocrite. YOU are the blind man.
20 Connie
March 27, 2008 @ 8:56 pm CETWhat is on this film may be described as hateful, but it is Hate and Bigotry as it emanates from the Qur’an and Islam itself.
For dessert, I suggest the following:
Part 1 here, parts 2-13 available at the site.
<a href="="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbLfpqBx2TU&feature=related">Islam: What the West Needs to Know</a>
21 Claudia
March 27, 2008 @ 9:08 pm CETLies! This site is really a hotbed of anti-Hutu bigotry!
And yes people, it is free speech. Even hate speech, if that’s what this movie is (I’ll actually wait to watch it, unlike most of you) is free speech. You can (respectfully) disagree with the decision to host this movie. There is a legitimate case to be made both for hosting it (to show that free speech mustn’t be compromised) or not doing so (because you disagree strongly with the message) but what IS true is that for their to be Free Speech there must be, by definition, very very few restrictions. Otherwise it is not free at all.
People who think that they should be able to pick and choose which points of view are allowed a voice do not belong in the West. They can move to Iran or to China, if they so admire the lack of freedom of speech. At least if you are a westerner and you oppose it it being permisable, recognize that is has more to do with fear than respect.
22 P.G.S.M.
March 27, 2008 @ 9:09 pm CETIf a movie pointing out the violent passages of the bible was made, would we see the same levels of threats that we see happening with Fitna?
You know the answer.
Radical Islam is a very real, large and serious problem today. Admit it. It’s not the movies that need to be stopped, it’s radical Islam… what will you do to stop it? Complain about how movies will cause violence? Radical Islam = insanity.
- point, game, set, match.
23 Saul Goode
March 27, 2008 @ 9:09 pm CETAnton..
Where is the film of Christians calling for the death of non-believers?
Where is the footage of Christians hanging gays?
Where is the video of a bunch of sub-human Christian savages beheading someone?
Where is the tape of Christian animals executing a woman with a rifle bullet to the back of the head?
…idiot
24 syn
March 27, 2008 @ 9:18 pm CETAs a Buddhist I have often meditated in a peaceful way towards trying to understanding why Muslims believe Jews are pigs and apes. Further, why does Islam feel the need to impose its religion on the world? If Allah is so great why does he need to issue fatwas of death upon those who wish to leave the Muslim religion? Perhaps if Islam would lay down its’ sword then perhaps it may find peace.
25 denialisanuglything
March 27, 2008 @ 9:20 pm CETNoah’s ark and other OT comparisons do not relate in any way to the Koran, which has no divisions (i.e. OT vs NT) and is followed in its entirety. The sooner people who conflate Christianity with Islam realise this, the better.
What Dutch people face after the release of this movie is only what all of Europe in particular will eventually need to come to terms with. Muslims who are offended by the movie should look to direct their offense to the numerous persons who commit the acts you see in this film, and many more, instead of Geert.
Islam is the only religion about which you can make such a movie present day because it is has not had its enlightenment. Koranic literalism (and Hadith) is the default position and I have spoken to many Muslims who believe in things incompatible with secular, democractic society.
The movie needed to be made to make people aware of ‘Islamism’ and a good dose of denial and weak logic will not make the issue go away. May I suggest you start with reading the Koran in its entirety and the hadith of Bukhari before you cling to your assertions that all religions are the same?
Islam is not the same as any other religion. It is the only religion that cannot integrate without continually pushing for more concessions, while many adherents want Sharia law over secular laws. You ignore this at your peril, no matter how fair-minded you wish to be.
Islamism is the new fascism.
26 Jock Herrer
March 27, 2008 @ 9:22 pm CET"Where is the footage of Christians hanging gays??"I’m sure I saw a documentary once by Lious Theroux about some American family of in breds who lived in the bible belt of America, they all hated gays as well. I think it is called The Most Hated Family in America.
27 yonason
March 27, 2008 @ 9:23 pm CETDECONSTRUCTING
#8 Shaf islam
March 27, 2008 @ 8:28 pm CET
“This film insulted me.”
So what? Just because you are insulted doesn’t mean what is being said is false.
“It is a hate film.”
No it isn’t. This is…
But, what if it were? There is no sin in hating evil.
“It is a hate crime.”
Anything you want to suppress is “criminal” in your mind, and the only “justice” you recognize are your own perverse desires.
“A lot of other religious people are killing each other, it does not mean his or her religion we need to include.”
No. about 85% to 90% of the violence currently on the planet involves Muslims, most of the rest being by Leftists. If the other religions are involved in violence, it is almost always in self-defense against militant Islam.
“It is not a freedom of expression.’
Of course it is, and that’s why you fear it. If people are forbidden to draw attention to evil, they won’t be able to fight it, which is exactly what you want.
“Hitler did say a lot of speeces. Should we consider those as part of freedom. No and never.”
Hitler’s legacy is incorporated in the current Islamic war against civilization. The Islamic world wide jihad is merely the continuation of what Hitler started.
“One third populations is being insulted.”
There you go, hiding behind your innocent fellows. Look, just because not all Muslims are bad, in spite of their religion, that doesn’t vindicate the idiology they have been indoctrinated with. Just because 1/3 of all people on the planet are wrong doesn’t mean we shouldn’t warn the other 2/3 about the monsters hiding behind them.
“Islam means peace.”
NO! It does NOT! It never has, and it never will!
‘If people bring other than peach [peace?], it goes to individuals, not entire populations.’
There you go, hiding behind your human shields again. We aren’t criticizing the “populations.” We are warning against the idiology that those populations have been enslaved to through no fault of their own.
“There fore, it is fully a hatefull film.”
Passionately expressed, but woefully illogical, not to mention dead wrong. You only confirm what we have known all along, that you don’t think rationally. You are incapable of the give and take necessary in a free society, and you hate the fact that your rigidity is exposed. That is why you would take away our freedom to expose you. That is why you believe you are free to kill those who defend their freedom to know the truth. It’s so much more “peaceful” for YOU if no one is able to defend himself against you.
“No more hate,…”
That is really all we are saying, and if you were sincere, you would be on our side, as a growing number of sane Muslims are.
If you REALLY want to stop the hate, clean up your own backyard first.
28 Brian
March 27, 2008 @ 9:39 pm CETYonason, EXCELLENT post ! ! Great job!
29 syn
March 27, 2008 @ 9:44 pm CET"American family of in breds who lived in the bible belt of America, they all hated gays as well. I think it is called The Most Hated Family in America."
Might you be referring to Westburo Church whose biggest attack on gays is to protest military funerals, never a gay hanging however; I beliieve its leader attended the 2nd Clinton inaugral ball so you’re probably on target about the most hated family thingy.
30 F Middleton
March 27, 2008 @ 10:00 pm CETWell now it’s finally here. Actually not much here that I haven’t seen in other sources. Nevertheless I support uttterly Geert Wilders’ right to say this - it is not about hate it is about warning. Having read enough of the Koran to find it the work of a psychopath, having seen enough of what is happening around the world, and what Muslims themselves say; Wilders is utterly endorsed. God preserve us if we don’t take this to heart.
31 njartist
March 27, 2008 @ 10:03 pm CETYou do not intend to insult anyone?
I am a Christian. I know full well that the followers of the demon allah have a knife at my throat as well as yours. I have no problem demanding that these excreable people be removed from the West, by force if necessary
32 fitna the movie
March 27, 2008 @ 10:09 pm CET[…] attacks. This movie shows the brutal reality of the enemy facing the West.lawhawk.blogspot.comControversial Fitna The Movie Online"Geert Wilders has put his movie ???Fitna??? online. You can watch it here at this blog, but […]
33 fitna
March 27, 2008 @ 10:09 pm CET[…] […]
34 yonason
March 27, 2008 @ 10:16 pm CET#30 F Middleton
March 27, 2008 @ 10:00 pm CET
<em>"Well now it’s finally here. Actually not much here that I haven’t seen in other sources."</em>
True, but because of all the hype and the resulting anticipation, now many more people will, out of curiosity, watch it and learn.
35 Danial
March 27, 2008 @ 11:22 pm CETSo I wonder how many people here defended Ward Churchill’s right to criticize U.S. foreign policy? I know he endured death threats from overzealous right-wing losers.
And I wonder how many people here feel about the LRA’s goal to implement a government under the Ten Commandments in Uganda by brute force.
As for the Buddhist guy, Tibet wasn’t a peace-loving utopia before the Chinese invasion either. In fact, it was just as bad as Iran now. Try reading some of your own history before commenting on others.
36 Danial
March 27, 2008 @ 11:24 pm CET"I have no problem demanding that these excreable people be removed from the West, by force if necessary"
Then stop hiding behind the safety of your PC and do so, coward.
37 Fellow Spartans
March 27, 2008 @ 11:42 pm CETSpartan Warriors Unite! This Is The Call to Battle! To put to rest these cowards and murders once and for all…
38 Juvat
March 27, 2008 @ 11:47 pm CETDanial, I suppose you are the elevated objective one? Although misguided, the Buddhist was only conveying the point that Buddhists haven’t as of late flown planes into buildings, bombed innocents and promised to force the planet to convert, whereas the Religion of Peace has at least been perpetrating the majority of violence in the world for the last several decades. It’s all about trend analysis Danial.
39 Plastic_kid
March 27, 2008 @ 11:56 pm CETReligion is the plaque of our time …. Muhammed/Jesus same shit.
40 Norman French
March 27, 2008 @ 11:59 pm CETIf you can watch this film and see nothing wrong then welcome to the brainwashing factory my friend. Your Satanic Cult embraces you and only the truth will set you free.
Oh! that’s right, you’ve been fooled into thinking you are free already.
41 Drasties - Nou breekt me de klomp.
March 28, 2008 @ 12:01 am CET[…] Reporter Dutch Anti-Islam Film “Fitna” is Released Christian Broadcasting Network PoliGazette - The Associated Press all 363 news […]
42 Danial
March 28, 2008 @ 12:02 am CET" Danial, I suppose you are the elevated objective one? Although misguided, the Buddhist was only conveying the point that Buddhists haven’t as of late flown planes into buildings, bombed innocents and promised to force the planet to convert, whereas the Religion of Peace has at least been perpetrating the majority of violence in the world for the last several decades. It’s all about trend analysis Danial."
I guess you forgot about Sri Lanka, didn’t you?
Keep ranting like a little girl, it’s amusing. I guess JihadWatch killed your ability to think.
43 syn
March 28, 2008 @ 12:06 am CETYeah sure Danial, today all those Tibetan monks are really taking it to the Communists.
In any case, why does Ahmadinejad always look like he is junked up on heroin?
44 Wouter
March 28, 2008 @ 12:13 am CET@ Shaf islam:
of course you are insulted, like you and your islam brotherhood is ALWAYS insulted by EVERYTHING in this world that is not islamic.
Islam will never conquer Europe, because there will come a day the citizens of Europe will stand up and fight this backward ideology out of Europe themselves and have their governments led before a tribunal for high treason.
greetings from Holland.
45 Danial
March 28, 2008 @ 12:56 am CET"In any case, why does Ahmadinejad always look like he is junked up on heroin?"
Perhaps it might be because Iran has a rather high population of drug addicts utilizing heroin? Who would have thought?
I’m more offended by the stupidity of the comments than I am over the film. The film is a joke.
46 pep
March 28, 2008 @ 1:52 am CETJock says "So let me get this straight. Geert Wilders releases a film that he knows is going to offend loads of muslims, and does so arguing his right to "freedom of speech". Yet at the same time, he wants part of the Koran to be banned in Holland. Right? May I just exercise my freedom of speech as say that I think Geert Wilders is a hypocritical fuck head. "
Why, yes, Jock, yes you can exercise your freedom of speech, unlike me in the countries you think are so peachy. Isn’t that odd? Pity you have nothing to say.
47 Danial
March 28, 2008 @ 1:57 am CET"Why, yes, Jock, yes you can exercise your freedom of speech, unlike me in the countries you think are so peachy. Isn’t that odd? Pity you have nothing to say."
Like to put words in people’s mouths huh?
The toolishness is evident in posts like these, but given the audience, I digress.
48 pep
March 28, 2008 @ 2:39 am CETDanial-
see the little double lines at the beginning and end of the words I "put in people’s mouths"?
Try to keep up.
49 EclectEcon
March 28, 2008 @ 2:57 am CETFitna, the Movie…
Geert Wilders’ film Fitna, a critical examination of Islamism and the Quran, is now available on the internet (e.g. see here). For reviews, …
50 Tsjeempie
March 28, 2008 @ 3:16 am CETI think its good that this film was made, for this reason:
It shows a lot of horror that is really only a small thing of what islam is about, a lot of people who follow the islam are just like christians that believe in something, there god. And that I think is a good thing.
The only problem is the small group that thinks terror is a way to make people believe the same they do.
The christian people have had that time with the crusades, and SOME muslims have that now.
The good part about this movie is that I think it can also make the other, in my eyes normal, muslims see how they can take action to hold back the extreme, because also they dont know the terror some of them afflict on others.
If both groupes can see that if we hold back the extreme of our population to take action. Every one can live in a better world, muslim or not.
Accept each other for what they believe, if you agree or not, and dont force others to think the same you do!
51 Michael Merritt
March 28, 2008 @ 3:41 am CETMany of the last 50 comments are why I don’t do the whole religion thing. Too much divisiveness, and they all take a part in it.*
*Disclaimer: I did not say all religious people take part in the divisiveness, I was speaking of the religions themselves and their histories.
52 syn
March 28, 2008 @ 3:49 am CETDanial, it is fun playing with with you.
Peace.
Tsjeempie
Perhaps rather than ‘crusade’ you meant ‘christians have had that with reformation’ something which has not yet happened with the Islamic religion; this is the problem, that ’small thing of what Islam is about’ has remained in the stone age while the rest of the world is living in the 21st century.
53 Rose
March 28, 2008 @ 4:02 am CETExactly who is the Coward? Geert is risking his future because he is brave enough to speak the truth. Wicked men will hunt him to his dying day. Jock Herrer himself is the real coward after all now he is shaking in his boots because he stands one chance in ten thousand that he might end up on a train in which some member of the "religion of peace" bombs in revenge. Shame on you, be a man, and stand up, and speak up for your freedom Jock.
54 Danial
March 28, 2008 @ 7:55 am CETSo why isn’t Geert on the front lines in Iraq or Afghanistan defending freedom then?
Oh wait, he’s a coward, like a majority of the loud-mouthed cowards that think they are tough hiding behind the safety of their computer screen. For all I care, go suck him off Rose if you love him that much.
55 yonason
March 28, 2008 @ 8:22 am CETTHE WAY THEY LIE TO US
I’ve just picked a few of things that are wrong with post #50 by “tsjeempie,” because I don’t want to keep it short.
“The good part about this movie is that I think it can also make the other, in my eyes normal, muslims see how they can take action to hold back the extreme, because also they dont know the terror some of them afflict on others.
1. The movie does not show how to “take action” with extremists, merely that they exist and that something must be done.
2. There is a false presumption implicit in that statement that only Muslims can deal with other Muslims. If after 1400 years don’t know how to keep their people from causing trouble, then they have no business stopping those of us who take the initiative they refuse.
3. Muslims know full well what extremists are in their midst. Thim movie didn’t show them anything they don’t know. And it may be only some who are committing the violence, but a very much larger number support them. If the invisible support wasn’t there, there would be no terror.
“If both groupes can see that if we hold back the extreme of our population to take action.”
That is nonsense. “both groupes?” NO! There is no equivalence. The ones who are committing attrocities are Muslims. And when someone fights back, that is NOT equivalent. The only reason they say that is to silence those of us who see through their attempted deception.
“Accept each other for what they believe, if you agree or not, and dont force others to think the same you do!”
Not when what they believe is that they have a right to kill me for my beliefs.
56 yonason
March 28, 2008 @ 8:49 am CET@#55 Danial
“So why isn’t Geert on the front lines in Iraq or Afghanistan defending freedom then?”
Because he is on the front lines in Holland, as Theo van-Gogh found out the hard way.
And, I repeat, Muslims know full well the violence that festers at the dark core of their “religion.”
57 yonason
March 28, 2008 @ 9:28 am CET(sorry, that should have been #54 Danial)
58 Norman French
March 28, 2008 @ 9:38 am CETSorry, is it Danial or Denial
59 ZAHID
March 28, 2008 @ 10:26 am CETI would like to ask just one question from Geert Why Islam is most rapidly growing religion in Europe as he calimed in his movie. Is it due to what he presented in it or due to PEACE religion. If any person from any religion did wrong things it does not mean that religion is FITNA. I will never say jewish or christianity religions are wrong becuas eif Israli or Bush did non-humanity things in Plestine or Iraq/Afghanistan then we can’t say that these relgion are not good. It is that these people are not good not the relgion. If muslim did wrong things then Islam will not be wrong, these few people may be wrong, so don;t blame Islam and Quran. Islam and Quran never supported these people. In Quran if any one harmed or killed any person then he/she killed whole human being.
60 Jock Herrer
March 28, 2008 @ 10:54 am CETYeah sure I’m a coward for criticising a man who think s it is OK to put the people of his country in grave danger for the sake of freedom of speech. What a joke.Anyway, I thought it might be quite salient to point out a few oversights the film conveniently omits. Sure, some Islamic extremists are guilty of inflicting terrible suffering and injuries to the west and want to inflict more. But what about the western allies and the UN and the suffering that they have inflicted upon women and children in many of these Islamic states?Interesting that there were no shots of Lebanese children with their legs blown off after stepping on an unexploded Isreali cluster bomb, nor white soldiers torturing Iraqi men, or genetically deformed babies in Vietnam, or Sudanese militia running around with BAE Systems manufactured AK47’s, or East Timoreans running for shelter whilst Hawk fighter planes, also manufactured by the evil west, fly over head.Oh no, all of the bad people in the world are muslims that have been brain washed by the Quran…
61 ****religion
March 28, 2008 @ 12:27 pm CET[admin] comment deleted because of the imposibility of removing all the obscenities and still having a coherent comment.
62 ****religion
March 28, 2008 @ 12:34 pm CET[admin] comment edited. Third time’s a charm, and you will be banned.
all the people who believe these days, you are as bad as the christians were a few 100 years ago, there is no god only yourself!churches and mosque’s are the temples of god or allah?and that same god or allah is telling you to not believe in materialism??
it doesn’t make any sense
63 Tsjeempie
March 28, 2008 @ 12:42 pm CET@Yonason
I don’t think this movie will persuade those of us that can stop them to do so. It will lead to a lot of wrongfully accused muslims and a lot of racism to good muslims. Thats what this will do to our people.
I think its a wakeup call for the good muslims to take action to prevent this satuation from escalating.
And you say a much larger group is supporting them. A larger group then that are exrteme, maybe support the extreme, but an even larger group don’t support it, they just don’t use the extreme methods to stop them, because these are normal peaceloving persons.
And if u accept eachother for what they believe it comes 2 ways, so also you won’t be killed for believing what you want!
64 Jock Herrer
March 28, 2008 @ 1:18 pm CETHAHA I see Admin have been deleted some posts, well SO MUCH FOR FREEDOM OF SPEECH. HYPOCRITES!
65 C Stanley
March 28, 2008 @ 1:26 pm CETJock: It’s not hypocrisy to have (and enforce) a comment policy on a privately hosted venue. People who want to scream insults and obscenities are perfectly free to walk outside their home (or crawl out from under their rocks) to do so, but no one is under any obligation to provide a forum for them.
66 suman
March 28, 2008 @ 1:34 pm CETi read all the comments and i watched to movie too i did see the versus of holy quran too but the point is that they just transutalted the war part not after or before that some times they show you what you want to see although most of time it is not fact you know media by the way sep 11 was the starter of the movie but if you want to know the reallity go to youtube and write $20 bill and then it explains to you what really 9-11 was well islam or any other religion does not teach violance it is just the mentality of poeple which turnslates the meaning of thes religions to thier own profit. you know nothing abouth profit mohamad he never chose the way for voilance eventhough non muslim people did not like him he always been kind and loveing to them abouth marraying the women at i should say that time it was war situation and there was lots of woment and kids with out shelter food to survive and then it was not like now where we all women can work and do what ever we want that is why he agreed the men could have more than one wife only for if the woment and the kids wanted to finally i want to say it is not islam that does all the bad things it is politics and some misleaded, selfish sold muslems who help all these things happen abouth the guys i should say it is forbedden in islam just becaouse it can caouse hole alot of health problems by the way it was islam through which lots if moderen medical treatments that exists today was discovered such as eye surgeries, hearth brain etc well there is a reason behind everything and before you reach to any conclusion you better know the fact that is not catching your eyes
67 Jock Herrer
March 28, 2008 @ 1:44 pm CETC Stanley. Insults are insults. Everyone knew that this film was going to offend the muslim community, and this kind of response should have been anticipated. This site supports the freedom of Geert Wilders to insult muslims, but obviously not for them to freely post their repsonses. For sure we will be probably be hearing more insults from people representing the muslim community, and probably worse.I’d like to know exactly which obscenities are banned from this site, since I have already called Geert Wilders a "f@#khead". Or is that OK for me to use profanities because I am rather more civilised than the one who have "crawled out from under rocks"?
[admin]: Comment (mildly) edited and you know why. Not removed entirely….for now.
68 C Stanley
March 28, 2008 @ 1:49 pm CETJock, I can’t speak for the site editors, but if you’re concerned that there was an oversight in not deleting YOUR profanity, I’d suggest that you e-mail them and ask them to edit it out.
69 Jock Herrer
March 28, 2008 @ 1:51 pm CETC Stanley. Your point is valid, this site is under no obligation to provide a forum for anyone to say anything. But surely if they want this video to be taken seriously, and wish to promote it under the banner of free speech, then they would extend the courtesy of allowing the muslim community to also respond freely.
70 Jock Herrer
March 28, 2008 @ 1:55 pm CETC Stanley. I donot wish for my comments to be deleted, i simply wish edited by MvdG. I could have used a far stronger term if i had wanted to. I also support free speech, however personal insults pale into insignifance in the light of offending an entire religious community and subsequently placing peoples lives, christians and muslims, in danger as a result of it.
71 Michael van der Galien
March 28, 2008 @ 1:58 pm CETWe will not tolerate calls for violence and murder. We have removed comments that said "Bomb Mecca," "destroy Islam!" and we will also delete comments that call for the destruction of the West, and murder of non-Muslims and so on. O, and don’t complain about our comment policy; it’s not allowed in the comment section. When you’ve got a complaint, send an e-mail.
72 Jock Herrer
March 28, 2008 @ 2:06 pm CET"We will not tolerate calls for violence and murder. We have removed comments that said "Bomb Mecca," "destroy Islam!" and we will also delete comments that call for the destruction of the West, and murder of non-Muslims and so on. O, and don’t complain about our comment policy; it’s not allowed in the comment section. When you’ve got a complaint, send an e-mail."Well here’s a wake up call to you guys. Calls for violence and murder is EXACTLY what this video is going to inspire. You know it, Geert Wilders knows it, everyone knows it. So why do it? Do you expect the muslims community to all suddenly sit up and go, hey you know what, Geert Wilders is right, our entire religious faith is built around hatred and violence.I don’t think so.I’d like to know what Geert Wilders solution is to the acceleration in numbers of muslims throughout Europe? Banning the Quran is NOT going to stop extremism. So what does he propose, insulting them all away? Does he intend to create a divide in the European community and perhaps start the ball rolling so that we end up with another holocaust.Muslims are part of our society now and we have to find a way to get on with each other. Insulting their religion is NOT the way to go about it!
73 Jules Crittenden » Fitna
March 28, 2008 @ 2:10 pm CET[…] Poligazette posts the Dutch Islamo-slam vid, at arm’s length. […]
74 Jock Herrer
March 28, 2008 @ 2:14 pm CETMichael van der Galien. Of course I assumed the insults were directed from muslims towards the west. But this brings up another issue, whilst this film will do everything to create more hatred towards the west from the muslim community, it could also work the other way and inspire vigilante attacks by whites against the muslim community. This film will do everything to creates divides between the two communites. Shame on all of you for hosting it.
75 Michael van der Galien
March 28, 2008 @ 2:36 pm CETActually Jock: Muslims could use it to teach what Islam truly teaches. Heck, I’m going to write a review of it and I’m going to point out that Wilders is abusing the Koran.
76 Jock Herrer
March 28, 2008 @ 2:39 pm CETThey could, but they ain’t gonna, let’s be realistic about it. Don’t know what you mean about Wilders abusing the koran, I assumed that you would be in favour of this film since you are admin. Perhaps I misread something and your being sarcastic…
77 Danial
March 28, 2008 @ 2:57 pm CETyonason, that’s a cop-out.
Fact is, if he felt that our freedom was truly at stake, he would be enlisting in the Dutch military to be sent to Afghanistan on the front-lines.
Failure to do so makes him a coward, and I doubt he would be among the first to fight for his country, like many other polemics who are all talk.
So why haven’t any of you e-Crusaders muster up the courage to go fight overseas? It’s quite painfully obvious why.
78 A muslim woman from Afghanistan
March 28, 2008 @ 6:10 pm CETI am born and raised in Afghanistan as a muslim woman. I have to say that the producer of the movie has saved the face of muslims by making only a 15 minute movie- otherwise it would have "insluted" the muslim brothers even more! Even more if the movie showed that in Islam a woman is half a man (for example when it comes to be a witness or receive will of parents. I have to indicate that muslims have their justifications always, for example, that a woman’s will is half of a man because her husband gets two third of his father’s will. The question is that what if I do not want to get married for some "legitimate!" islamic laws!). The movie would have insulted muslims if it showed that if their sisters were raped, they had to provide 2 male witness or FOUR female witness otherwise she would be accused of adultry- and stoned to dead like the ones we see in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
Can any muslim explain whether they are insulted by the movie or by their Quran for spredding so much haterate.
Lets leave religions aside and start believing in humanity.
79 Jock Herrer
March 28, 2008 @ 6:32 pm CETWell well, meneer Wilders, you are not a popular man are you? Not only do your government want nothing to do with your film, and a dutch muslim organisation are taking you to court over it, but now the artist who created the mohammed cartoon you used in it is also going to sue you. He says his cartoon was meant as a statement against terrorism NOT Islam as a whole. Bad luck my fiend, even Kurt Westergaard wants to distance himself from your fascist film.
80 Rose
March 28, 2008 @ 6:57 pm CETStop burying your head in the sand Jock. This video is a wake up call, people can’t make wise decisions to protect their freedom if they are not allowed to know what their enemy’s up to. You may be willing to convert to Islam to protect your own skin, but others who are not willing have a right to be informed. Have you ever cracked a Quran or the Hadith’s, Geert showed accurately and in context what it teaches. Yes, we do have many Muslims who are moderate, (who don’t take their religion too seriously, or "by the book", so to speak), but for those who do they are dangerous. If you think that Geert’s movie is going to cause violence this is where you are mistaken, the violence is coming anyway, he is merely flushing them out early. A wise act of war is often a preemptive one.
81 yonason
March 28, 2008 @ 7:23 pm CET@danial
"So why haven’t any of you e-Crusaders muster up the courage to go fight overseas? It’s quite painfully obvious why."
I enlisted and served in the US Navy from 1970 to 1974. My credentials are intact. Yours, however, are just in your own mind.
82 yonason
March 28, 2008 @ 7:26 pm CET@#58 Norman French
March 28, 2008 @ 9:38 am CET
LOL - precisely
83 Jock Herrer
March 28, 2008 @ 7:46 pm CETVery foolish words Rose. I, and everyone, is well aware of the problems posed by these religious fanatics. And what do you mean about converting to Islam to save my skin? Get real woman, these crazy imams might talk about ruling the western nations and the day will come and all that, but it’s not is it, it’s just a load of hot air. These people donot have the military might to invade us. There is nothing whatsoever to be gained from this film, it is only going to stir up more animosity and distrust between the two communities, at a time when we should be trying to integrate and live together peacefully. If there is a terrorist attack following the publication of this film ,Geert Wilders will have blood on his hands, but of course not his own blood..
84 yonason
March 28, 2008 @ 7:56 pm CET@#63 tsjeempie
“And you say a much larger group is supporting them. A larger group then that are exrteme, maybe support the extreme, but an even larger group don’t support it, they just don’t use the extreme methods to stop them, because these are normal peaceloving persons.”
Then they are useless.
You argued above (implicitly) that Muslims should police themselves, and that this film was good because it showed how (which it didn’t). But if they were really peaceful, as you claim, then they are powerless to do anything, so for us to stand by and allow Muslims to handle it themselves (assuming they are willing to, which they have never shown themselves to be) is suicide.
And, that is because YOU CAN NOT FIGHT FANATICAL SUICIDAL SAVAGES WITH PASSIVE RESISTANCE.
You know; with Sharia’s penchent for beatings, chopping off body parts, hangings, etc., the “non-violent” ones should have all the tools they need to deal with the “small number” of violent ones who “misrepresent Islam”. But, they have NO punishment for those whom you pretend are not true Muslims. The fact that they don’t means that your argument is a completely fiction, a deception designed to lull us into complacency so the violent can gain the upper hand.
“And if u accept eachother for what they believe it comes 2 ways, so also you won’t be killed for believing what you want!”
Yes, it should go both ways, but it does not. And, yes, they (you) DO want to kill or subjugate me for not believing as they (you) do.
__________________________________________________________
Everyone else, PLEASE WATCH THIS VIDEO FOR ALL THE GRUESOME DETAILS AND HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE!
___________________________________________________________
Islam appears to be a cult of small group of thugs who have forced their idiology on large populations which they pretend are representative of the whole but are not, and behind whom they hide. The majority of otherwise decent human beings are really just human shields and cannon fodder for the violent.
85 Black Shards, In Your Eyes, Blinding » Fitna
March 28, 2008 @ 8:47 pm CET[…] the film. And read the discussion about it here and […]
86 marc
March 28, 2008 @ 8:54 pm CET@jock, 83
As for the aftermath of the film, nothing will be done by Muslim terrorists that they aren’t waiting for excuse and opportunity to coincide. Blaming their hatred on Fitna is like blaming daylight for showing you what you didn’t want to see the night before.
@yonasan, 84
Yes, that’s it.
87 Brenda
March 28, 2008 @ 9:50 pm CETI have seen the ‘movie’ and I must say that it’s not as anti-muslim as I expected. There have been discussions about it for months now, but I can’t really understand why anymore. Why would Muslims be upset about this film? It shows what they believe in and is actually a pro-muslim movie. All the statements are made by Imams, or Muslims. The terrorist attacks are preformed by Muslims, and it quotes parts of their Choran. Ofcourse I think that there are also "good" Muslims, and that only the extremist do or say these horrible things, but then the "good" Muslim should take clear distance from these things that are happening and been said. Islam CAN be a very dangerous religion, there is no other religion where the extremists use this type of violence. Or have you ever seen a extreme Christian/Bouddist/Hindu using this type of voilence? I think if anyone should be put to court for spreading hate it should be those Imams, not Geert Wilders Holland, take care..
88 shaz4u
March 29, 2008 @ 3:54 am CETi think that we must hate this type of movie in which we tease someone with respect to his religion. i think that’s not the way to give information. cowards do like this.
89 Danial
March 29, 2008 @ 5:30 am CET" I enlisted and served in the US Navy from 1970 to 1974. My credentials are intact. Yours, however, are just in your own mind."
Sure you did, chump.
No need to lie in order to boost your e-cred, wannabe e-Crusader.
90 Danial
March 29, 2008 @ 5:33 am CET" Or have you ever seen a extreme Christian/Bouddist/Hindu using this type of voilence?"
Yes I have.
Extreme Christians - Lord’s Resistance Army from Uganda, the Bush administration’s excuse to invade Iraq, the Serb militias that started warfare in the Balkans in the 90’s
Hindus - Try Shiv Sena and the RSS. Gujrat riots in 2002 and the Christmas Day attacks on churches by Hindu fanatics last year, which many of the dipshit hypocrites here did not express outrage over
Buddhists - Sri Lanka
Want me to come up with more examples?
91 Freedom
March 29, 2008 @ 9:44 am CETJock, please grow a spine.
Do you have any idea how many brave men and woman have died fighting for the freedom you have today?
Freedom is never free. You have to fight for it.
92 Ebtihal
March 29, 2008 @ 4:56 pm CETwho thinks he has freedom of speech in the West?
you know Prophet Mohamed was insulted alot during his life [ actually when he was calling the pagans to worship one God] and he never replied to those people, he forgave them [ this is history if you do not know]
So In the beginning I decided not to reply to all this chit because it does not matter to me and it wonnt harm a noble prophet who has been honored by God. But really it is the arrogance and the illusion of the western world that have changed my mind. you think you are the protectors of freedom !!!!!!!! I went to England, to USA. the first thing they tell you when you go there [even before 2001] DO NOt Talk in RELIGION or POLITICS. do you call this fredom of speech?!!!!! you live a big illusion.
Did not you think why Muslims did not reply to this by insulting Christianity or Jews in thier newspapers and magazines??????
what we do is to protest and defend our religion do not we have the right to defend what we believe in in your human rights statement??????!!!!!!!!
Finally, do you think we are terrorists? Ok here are some facts we 1-are not the criminals of the holocaust.
2-We are not the destroyers of Hiroshima.
3-Islam did not take the world into two bloody world wars, you did.
4-we did not invent the nuclear weapons, you did and used them.
5-we did not invent the biological mass destruction weapons, you did and used them.
6- we did not come to steal your oil and manipulate you, you did.
7- we did not kick your people out of their homes and simply [very simply] give your land to the Jews becausein Christian religion they are God’s people. you did in Palestine.
in all this I am talking about governments not individaul actions.
SO WHO IS THE TERRORIST
93 Danial
March 29, 2008 @ 8:44 pm CET"You have to fight for it."
I didn’t know making a shitty video makes you a freedom fighter. Such idiocy. Geert Wilders is a coward, plain and simple.
And to add on Ebithal’s claims, the "Christian church" sanctioned and rationalized colonialism throughout most of the world. Remember what happened to the aboriginal race in Van Diemen’s Land when Europeans colonized it? Remember what happened to the Americas when the conquistadores forcibly converted the natives to Catholicism? Remember the Inquisition in both the Iberian Peninsula and the Indian island of Goa, where forced conversions were the norm? I could go on and on, but many retards are pretty ignorant about history in general.
94 Brenda
March 29, 2008 @ 9:13 pm CETDanial,
In no holy book of Christian/Bouddist/Hindu the "God" preaches violence against others. The Choran does. The voilence you are talking about don’t have a religious underground, but is done by individuals. They were not using voilence in name of their "God".
The Muslims that don’t recognise themselves in the film have no reason to be insulted, but should take clear distance from the extremists. If they are insulted,.. the right way is NOT to send threats to Liveleak, NOT to threat the country with terrorist attacks, BUT to have a good debate between the people. And what Wilders did reach with the making of this film, is that we are all talking about it and trying to understand eachother better.
95 Freedom
March 29, 2008 @ 9:24 pm CETYes Danial, you are correct. And by your own comparison Islam today compares to Christianity of a few hundred years ago. Which coincidentally is exactly the point Wilder’s tries to make with this film.
Are you even capable of comprehending the difference between history and the present day?
As they say, there is non so blind, as he who does not want to see.
96 Danial
March 29, 2008 @ 10:11 pm CETFreedom, how about you look up the Dominionists and the LRA if you aren’t capable of comprehending the existence of fanatics withing YOUR midst.
97 Danial
March 29, 2008 @ 10:15 pm CET"In no holy book of Christian/Bouddist/Hindu the "God" preaches violence against others. The Choran does. The voilence you are talking about don’t have a religious underground, but is done by individuals. They were not using voilence in name of their "God"."
First of all, it’s Qu’ran (or Koran in the Western sense), not "Choran".
Second, try reading the Bible if you don’t think there is violence against others. There is a verse in the Bible that states those who work on the Sabbath should be subjected to the death penalty. There are plenty more but I’ll just leave it at that.
As for the "intolerance" against others in the Qu’ran, I’m sorry but you fail to look at the context it was in, and it also forbids followers from oppressing others if they hold a different belief.
"The Muslims that don’t recognise themselves in the film have no reason to be insulted, but should take clear distance from the extremists. If they are insulted,.. the right way is NOT to send threats to Liveleak, NOT to threat the country with terrorist attacks, BUT to have a good debate between the people. And what Wilders did reach with the making of this film, is that we are all talking about it and trying to understand eachother better."
The fact is that Wilders thinks we are all the same, so stop thinking otherwise. Wilders hates Muslims and it’s quite evident from his dislike towards the two obviously secularized Dutch Muslim MP’s.
I agree that whoever threatened LiveLeak were idiots because it further reinforces the message of the video.
If Wilders cares about debate, then how come he has turned down nearly every single debate with Muslims?
It’s obvious because he hates them, and you have drank his Kool-Aid apparently.
I’m sure you’d see no problem if all Muslims in Europe were eradicated from the face of the Earth, don’t you? And you call yourselves "tolerant".
Also, how is Geert defending freedom of speech WHEN HE HIMSELF CALLS FOR BANNING THE QU’RAN?!
Get off your high horse.
98 mistagorilla
March 29, 2008 @ 11:53 pm CETBlogger KuiperCliff has ‘Fitna’ up on his site for viewing: [link]
99 Rose
March 30, 2008 @ 3:56 am CESTHi Danial, Are you interested in being educated or just in spouting your lack of understanding? Bible 101: The Sabbath laws applied to the nation of Israel alone, a reading of the text will bear that out. This was not a rule that instructed the Jews to go to the nations and force them under penalty of death to keep the Sabbath. It is important when studying a religion that you treat it fairly, that is you read the text in it’s context, acknowledging the parameters that surround any instructions. Much like you would read any other book.
The Quran read in the context of the Hadith’s is very enlightening and is accurately represented by the film of Geert’s.
100 Danial
March 30, 2008 @ 7:20 am CESTLooks like Rose has drank the "Fitna" Kool-Aid. How unsurprising. Blind sheep.
Rose, the Lord gave you a brain to think independently, but here you are parroting the words of Geert Wilders. That’s just as much of an insult to the free mind.
101 Ebtihal
March 30, 2008 @ 7:35 pm CESTThe Challenge
I have just few words to add for Geert Wilder, the hypocrit, I challenge you if you dare to post a complete version of the Quraan in your movie. If you do this [ I know you will not dare to do it as you will be a BIG LOSER infront of God] if you do it I give up.
DO POST A COMPLETE VERSION OF TEH QURAAN then comment you ignorants and get out of your illusion of freedom of speech. let Quraan talk and then we will see. this is our challenge if you are up to it tell your Wilders to post the complete version of the quraan to his movie.
salam
102 yonason
March 30, 2008 @ 9:05 pm CESTSO MANY FALSEHOODS, SO LITTLE TIME
@Ebithal #92
“- we did not come to steal your oil and manipulate you, you did.”
If it weren’t for Westerns scientists you wouldn’t know there was oil there. If it weren’t for Western engineers, you wouldn’t be able to get it out, or process it. If it weren’t for Western money, which we pay you for your oil, your leaders would still be desert marauders. (NOTE: I say, “your leaders” because they are the ones hogging the profits for themselves. The ordinary Arab doesn’t get squat. If you want to complain about theft, complain to them, not us.) And if those leaders spent the money to benefit their people, instead of indulging themselves and supporting terrorists, everyone in the world would be a lot better off.
“3-Islam did not take the world into two bloody world wars, you did.”
Islam did it’s share, and on the side of the Nazis.
“we did not kick your people out of their homes and simply … give your land to the Jews … you did in Palestine.”
You kicked Jews out of their homes all across the Middle East, and there has never been a country called “Palestine.” Israel is, and always will be, Jewish Land. All anyone needs to do is look at the names of nearly all the towns, cities and regions. They are the same names the have had for thousands of years. They are the same names that were given them by Jews long before your “prophet” began his war against civilization. How dare you accuse us of theft of our land!
Finally, learn some history. if America hadn’t dropped the Atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, many hudreds of thousands more lives would have been lost. And as to the invention of the bomb, if you were smart enough you would have done it first, and you would have used it as you so desperately want to today.
103 yonason
March 30, 2008 @ 11:01 pm CESTSEE THIS MOVIE TO UNDERSTAND
…that while the earlier verses in the Koran appear to be “peaceful,” that latter verses are not. And it is a religions principle in Islam that the later verses invalidate the earlier ones.
But it wouldn’t matter if there were many seemingly violent verses in the Koran, if those verses were not interpreted violently. Unfortunately, they ARE interpreted violently. Just look carefully at any Islamic society, and you will find anything from mild intolerance to fanatical oppression. For cruelty, they are unsrupassed –Female genital mutilation, beatings, limb amputations eye removal, torture, rape, “Honor killings,” hangings, stonings, crucifixion, etc., etc. It is all well documented. And it is all sanctioned by their Sharia law.
The Saudis are among the worst offenders of human rights, and some of the most virulent propagators of racism, intolerance and hate on the planet.
The anti-Semitism of Egypt is also extremely vile.
While Arabs can buy and own land in Israel, the so-called “Palestinians” have made it a capital offense for an Arab to sell land to a Jew. And, Jordan is almost as bad.
In fact, out of all the Middle Eastern countries, Israel is the most tolerant of Arabs/Muslims - much more so than Arab/Islamic ones. Some Arabs are even speaking out against the propaganda.
They propagate falsehood to make others appear gulty of what they do, and themselves appear innocent. They have their nerve!
And that is just a brief introduction.
How dare they criticize anyone else!
104 yonason
March 31, 2008 @ 2:05 am CESTLIVE LEAK WANTS…
…us to "accept one another’s culture???
I will never accept some 7th century savage who thinks he has a right to kill me if I don’t want to live in the dark ages with him as my lord and master.
And they will never accept us, because it challenges their primative itiotology!
I appreciate their concern for their staff, but kissing the terrorists behinds? That’s too much!
105 yonason
March 31, 2008 @ 2:11 am CESTI appreciate Live Leak wanting to protect their staff, but to say that they hope we can learn to appreciate each others differences? That was totally unneccessary.
The whole problem is that Islam is constitutionally incapable of "appreciating" ANY differences.
And I will not "appreciate" the cult of some seventh century savage who believes he has the "right" to murder me if I don’t think like he does, and if I don’t want him for my lord and master.
106 yonason
March 31, 2008 @ 2:13 am CEST(sorry for the duplication but I didn’t think my first was accepted, and i couldn’t remember exactly how I had worded it, so that’s why the repost and why they are different)
107 Danial
March 31, 2008 @ 4:13 am CESTadmin: sorry, but you were warned about personal attacks and vulgarity. Banned
108 Rose
March 31, 2008 @ 5:47 am CESTDanial I have read all but the last 90 or so pages of the entire Hadiths. Don’t try to con me, I know exactly what Islam teaches.
109 Rose
March 31, 2008 @ 6:09 am CESTPeople please get informed. Read the Hadiths, they are readily available on line free (so is the Quran). While the Quran is a bunch of short pithy sayings with no context which makes it painfully dull reading . The Hadith’s on the other hand are full of context and therefore easier to read (I was going to say "more enjoyable to read" but that word choice made me cringe. -you will find things in it that are very disturbing).
Once you have a good grasp on Islam, the Arabic culture and the mindset of the 7th century, the actions of Mohammed and his followers, then you are ready to read the Quran and the short pithy sayings will now have a context in which to understand them. Then, ain’t nobody gonna con you.
110 yonason
March 31, 2008 @ 6:18 pm CEST“Then, ain’t nobody gonna con you.” — Rose
I know where to find a searchable copy the Koran, but I don’t know where to find a clear and easily readable rendition of the Hadiths.
111 Brenda
March 31, 2008 @ 7:37 pm CEST97 Danial March 29, 2008 @ 10:15 pm CET
"First of all, it’s Qu’ran (or Koran in the Western sense), not "Choran".
Ok, thank you for the spelling correction. I thought it was more important WHAT we write here and not HOW we write it.. I am from Holland, and I speak Dutch and 3 foreign languages. How about you?
Second, try reading the Bible if you don’t think there is violence against others. There is a verse in the Bible that states those who work on the Sabbath should be subjected to the death penalty. There are plenty more but I’ll just leave it at that.
I am proud to say that I HAVE READ the whole Bible, new and old testament. There is NO such verse in the Bible; if there was..you probably also would have written wich book and in wich verse.
I am very well informed about what God says, also about his Sabbath, and there is no such thing as a death pennalty for those who work on Sabbath.
The fact is that Wilders thinks we are all the same, so stop thinking otherwise. Wilders hates Muslims and it’s quite evident from his dislike towards the two obviously secularized Dutch Muslim MP’s.I agree that whoever threatened LiveLeak were idiots because it further reinforces the message of the video.If Wilders cares about debate, then how come he has turned down nearly every single debate with Muslims?
As I have said before, I am from Holland, and Wilders repeadedly invited Muslim communities for a debate. Even after the film was released on the internet.
It seems like you are not well informed and you just don’t know what to say anymore then;
It’s obvious because he hates them, and you have drank his Kool-Aid apparently.
Wilders never said he hates Muslims. He points out the dangers of islamitic-extremist to the western democracy.
I’m sure you’d see no problem if all Muslims in Europe were eradicated from the face of the Earth, don’t you? And you call yourselves "tolerant".
Oh,..we are getting personal now?
To answer in a adult way: I would have a problem if all the Muslimes were eradicated from the face of the Earth. In fact I have many friends that are Muslim, and I wouldn’t like to miss them. I am very tolerant, towards anybody, no matter wich colour or religion. As long as they tolerate me too.
Unfortunately, the Qu’ran (mind the spelling) does not tollerate people with other opinions…
Also, how is Geert defending freedom of speech WHEN HE HIMSELF CALLS FOR BANNING THE QU’RAN?!
He is not asking to ban the Qu’ran. In the and of his film he calls the muslim people to rip out pages, wich preach a type op violence or terror.
Get off your high horse.
I don’t own a horse,..we all ride bikes here in Holland.
http://www.telegraaf.nl/buitenland/3681186/_Vader_schiet_dochter_dood__.html
Need I say more?
112 redandwhitestripes
April 2, 2008 @ 2:12 pm CEST"Well done Geert! I hope you are all tucked up in your nice secure country mansion, whilst the rest of us in Holland still use the buses and trains everyday cautiously, you bloody coward."
Perhaps the day that you get multiple qualifications in law, get voted for by 500,00 people, make a movie about your concerns about Islam and receive massive death threats as a response, you can have a mansion (and armed guard that strips your freedom) too. Idiot.
113 yonason
April 2, 2008 @ 7:07 pm CESTISLAMOPHOBIA, SAUDI STYLE!
“Not too many years ago, the remains of the Prophet Mohammed’s house in Mecca were bulldozed to construct a public toilet.”
114 Emad
April 3, 2008 @ 1:37 am CESTDear all
I m moslim and I found it good chance for you to discover islam from pure sourse ; you had seen somthing never match with right humanity so how all moslims believe in that , the best way to discover the truth by yourslvies you must reach the light by the end of the dark tunel it is ivitation to discover islam in pure state, please accept the chalange with yourself and you will thanks me latter
regards
115 Ebtihal
April 5, 2008 @ 4:59 pm CESTThe Challenge,Why nobody answered me?! I told all of you that I challenge Geer Wilders to attach a full copy of the Quraan to his movie, and then we will see if it really calls for voilance or not. But i know he will never do, because he knows really well that he will lose his dirty battle if he does this. Now Yanson, you are trying to change the subject to Hadith, I talk about the Quraan [a complete version], not just chosen incomplete sentences that are taken out of the context.
Salaam
116 liz
April 29, 2008 @ 3:38 am CESTWhether the muslims like it or not the Jews are God’s chosen people. Let me point out that Christianity is a personal relationship with God, that can only be reached through Jesus Christ. It is not a religion. In Christianity we are God’s children and not God’s slaves. Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Jesus said "I am the Way the Truth and the Light, no one comes to the Father than by Me. Religion does not offer salvation or freedom but Jesus Christ said you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free. Christianity is peace and love and forgiveness. Read the Sermon on the Mount, in the Holy Bible. When Jesus was dying on the cross He said Father forgive them for they do not know what they are doing. No one is born into Christianity. It is a choice from a free will. If a muslim converts to Christianity the Koran states that he is to be killed but if I decided to become a muslim or any other religion, Christianity does not condemn me to be killed. If one is a true Christian one can never convert to any other religion. I challenge all muslims and non-muslims to read the Bible with an open mind, but, before pray to God that he will guide you. If you really love God and is seeking Him, you will find Him. Seek and you will find, knock and the door shall be opened unto you. Jesus said there are two commandments : Love God with your whole heart, and with your whole soul and with your whole mind and love thy neighbour as yourself (Matthew 22: 37 - 30). Christianity gives me assurance of salvation. God loves every person, For God so loved the world that He gave His Only Begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life (John 3:16 ) This peace.
117 SARFARAZ
June 3, 2008 @ 6:51 pm CESTWhat a BULLSHIT is showing………this film totally deliver wrong information about muslim…….ISLAM is the only religion that does not allow to kill any human being inspite of any religion…….the clip about surah 8 deliver the message that if some enemy try to conquer you….than only you can fight with those enemy to protect yourself……I think person who shows such kind of clip in society must know the exact meaning other wise he doesn’t have any right’s to deliver a wrong message against any RELIGION…..
118 Shiraz
June 8, 2008 @ 10:25 pm CESTFirst of all i respect the freedom speech. but, no one have rights to hurt anyone`s feelings. Brain you are a real son of the bitch don’t know anything about quran or hadith. You might be fucking bastard things you know everything. don’t ever dare to say a word about our prophet. You are the people who creates extremist and make people to kill people. Islam always say`s to respect other people and respect there religions. Islam means peace and respect. As a Muslim i strongly oppose bombings and violations. that what runs in all Muslims minds. Just a reminder about Israel. Jews come to palestine because they know Muslims respect people and religions. if they didn’t allow them to live there, there wont be Israel today.
So, Hopefully I pray all the bullshit in the films does not create any more extrimists.
Cheers any way for publishing the video.
119 shakeel Dad khan
June 24, 2008 @ 7:00 am CESTThe whole reason behind the dispute between ISlam and rest of religion is the lack of knowledge. Muslims are responsible as they have not introduced Islam to others. Neither they are follwoing Islam in properway nor they have introduced it others so misconceptions arise. Infact, Islam is the same religion which has come from the same source from other religions have come. Since starting all the messengers of all religions said in the last one messenger will come and the signs of that messenger is so and so which resemels to Prophet Mohammed (PBUH). If all come to knwo this fact dispute will be settled.