10 Comments »

1. 1 MontyP

   January 24, 2008 @ 7:10 pm CET

   Edited by MvdG: That’s it. You’re banned. We’re not fond of those victim games. The victim is the freedom of speech, not individuals who try to equate freedom of speech with racism.

2. 2 Claudia

   January 24, 2008 @ 7:45 pm CET

   Good for the Dutch people. It just goes to show you that even when government officials seem like utter wimps, the people are made of sterner stuff.

   All the extremists will achieve is to legitimate Wilder’s position. Wilders is probably a racist and most certainly over the top, so giving him legitimacy helps no one. But when push comes to shove, it’s nice to see that at least some people in Europe are willing to stand up and say enough is enough, this is our country and we can say what we damn well please here.

   You’re welcome to protest peacefully, write letters to the papers, practice your own freedom of speech, but if freedom tastes so awful to you that you respond violently, then you should move to somewhere in the 75% of the world that isn’t free, see how you like it.

3. 3 Elvis Smith

   January 25, 2008 @ 12:36 am CET

   Everyone gets criticized and everyone gets offended in a free country. I am a devote Christian and we get hit on the head all the time. Are we threatening to kill comedians, feminists, and gays who slag Christianity? Maybe a 10 out of 2billion of us, whereas Muslims seek to take rabid delight in being offended and the ensuring calls for blood. If this politician wants to say the Koran is evil, let him. He can also say that the Bible is evil. Lots of people have with no trouble from Christians or Jews.  If people can’t slag the Koran/Muslims then Muslims should be expelled. Grow up or leave.

4. 4 Munir Ahmed

   January 26, 2008 @ 2:52 am CET

   "I will not sit by and let immigrants who refuse to integrate limit the freedom they fought for. If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. I’m sure you’ll be welcome in Iran or Saudi Arabia."

   They arent immigrants- they are Dutch. You are calling for the expulsion of Dutch citizens simply because they arent white and dare use the rights given them under Dutch law to protest and take legal action. You claim to hate fascists but really are one.

   Were a Dutch Imam making equivalent comment about non-Muslims as Wilders is,  wouldnt you call for his immediate arrest/detention/expulsion ?- such is the double standard of western "freedom of speech"

5. 5 Munir Ahmed

   January 26, 2008 @ 2:57 am CET

   Since Geert Wilders would if in power make owning a copy of the Quran a criminal offence , why are you defending him as a pillar of free speech.

   "When the Dutch tell Muslims that if they want to live in the West they must accept Western values (which is true) they confront them with kissing homosexuals and public nudity. When they say that the Koran teaches intolerance (which is true) they propose banning the book. The PVV’s official website states that even the mere possession of the Koran – the “ownership in a household context” – should be made a criminal offence. This would turn many Islam critics, perhaps even Mr. Wilders himself, into a criminal under Dutch law. One has to be an anti-Koran puritan to propose legislation like that in a country teeming with sex shops that sell an abundance of kinky objects which Dutch citizens are allowed to “own in a household context,” and where ‘coffee shops’ serve cannabis.
   "

6. 6 Tap

   January 26, 2008 @ 3:46 am CET

   "Since Geert Wilders would if in power make owning a copy of the Quran a criminal offence , why are you defending him as a pillar of free speech."

   Nobody has suggested Geert Wilders is a pillar of free speech. Saying he has the right to free speech does not imply he uses his free speech wisely. But his freedom of speech does not depend on the value or wisdom of his speech.  You should recognize that, as it obviously pertains to you too.

   "You are calling for the expulsion of Dutch citizens simply because they arent white and dare use the rights given them"

   Why do you find it necessary to lie and how do you expect it will help your clause? This post mentioned nothing about race. It also didn’t call for expulsion, as ’please leave’ hardly qualifies as such. But your next paragraph exposes your agenda…you seem to be offended that Dutch society does not mirror your muslim values..and you want to change that, don’t you? Perhaps that is why he suggested going somewhere else. There are other societies that offer what you want. Go there if you dislike Dutch values so much.

7. 7 George

   January 26, 2008 @ 5:49 am CET

   admin: George, you have been warned many many many times about trying to debate the comments policies in public and “playing gotcha” with site contributors. Now you’re banned.

8. 8 Mark Alexander

   January 28, 2008 @ 12:55 am CET

   I think that Geert Wilders is to be applauded for his courageous stand.Whether right or left, anyone who makes a stand for freedom of expression is to be applauded, since we are being ’sold out’ by our craven political élite.Anyone who values freedom of speech and freedom of expression (which my ancestors died for in the twentieth century), then we should all stand by Geert, whether we like the person, or not.I happen to like him. He has something <i>sympathique</i> about him. I wouldn’t like to be in his shoes, however.

9. 9 Niek

   January 28, 2008 @ 1:00 pm CET

   My 2 cents: the books, Quran, Bible, Talmud and other are not very different; I would say even very similar in many ways (whole chapters are similar). But that is not the case here. In my opinion it is not about the book, Quran in this case, it is about those who explain the book. There are many ways to explain what’s written in the Quran or Bible. Oh and putting the text in the 21st century context is very necessary of course.

   I do not agree with Wilders that the book is dangerous, I think the people who interpreter the books can be a danger, but that is the same with all those holy books and its interpreters. CNN’s Christiane Amanpour had a great piece of journalism about God’s warriors.  If you feel the need to make a movie about the Quran, I think the movie will be better if you add similar examples from other groups following different books. There is no need for provocation, but it is very easy to provoke the religious  world nowadays. So Wilders movie is less smart and useful than a journalistic piece of art by Christiane.

   As long as the movie shows how different people interpreter the text and the consequences and the actions taken by those, then i think it can be a interesting movie. But please let see the movie first and then think and then react later.

   At last, I would like to say that I do feel strongly that people need to live where they feel most comfortable and can express themselves best in every way. I think almost for every kind of expresion we have a piece in the world nowadays.

10. 10 Tim

    February 28, 2008 @ 11:10 am CET

    A good site about the Wilders movie:
    http://www.fitnathemovie.info/

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