Apparently we disagree on the magnitude of the problems, and that disagreement explains why you think conservatives are being inconsistent and why I think liberals are being inconsistent (though as you’ve noted, you may not be an example of one of those inconsistent liberals if you truly do apply the same standard in criticizing Christian and Muslim fundamentalists).

There’s also disagreement, I think, on magnitude of the problem because you define issues like abortion and pro-life stance as a Christian construct and I don’t. Pro-life is consistent with a Christian viewpoint of a soul, but that’s not the only reason for defining the existence of right to life before the fetus leaves the birth canal.

Absolutely, and I do both when these two groups come up, criticizing any left-winger who applies resistance and anger towards select extremists out of bias or political posturing. But another issue is that criticizing christians is apparently intolerant even though the right-wing demands more of this “intolerance” - just aimed in another direction.

“And being in Europe, I’d think that it would be the latter group that are “closer to home and more capable of doing damage” in your backyard.”

Once again, I apply my standards unselectively so that doesn’t work on me. Christianists are a threat to even the most sensible left-wing aims and policies in the US, and I did not say anything about their presence in Europe.

“I’d also think that you might consider this in light of Jason’s question regarding how numerous or influential “Christianists” really are in the US, and whether we who live here have a better understanding of that than you who don’t.”

I haven’t said anything regarding the quantity or proportion of these people, but I have said that they can be defined and isolated, as well they should.

I also wonder why it is that liberals are accused for *not* upholding their beliefs out of PC sensitivity when they do not spend their time deploring muslim extremists but are called intolerant when they take care to monitor those christian extremists that are closer to home and more capable of doing damage.

Actually, Xel, you’ve defined the problem right there. The issue is whether liberals consistently apply these criticisms by critically examining religious fundamentalists of all persuasions, or whether they selectively oppose Christian fundamentalists while ignoring or even enabling the Muslim ones.

And being in Europe, I’d think that it would be the latter group that are “closer to home and more capable of doing damage” in your backyard. I’d also think that you might consider this in light of Jason’s question regarding how numerous or influential “Christianists” really are in the US, and whether we who live here have a better understanding of that than you who don’t.

The respect and the criticism is noted.

“I know a lot of Christians. I know few if any of what you describe as “Christianists”. In fact, the only place I ever seem to encounter them is in the partisan fairy tales that are made up about them and how they supposedly control everything (yet seemingly manage to get few of their actual preferences enacted into law).”

That is not why I find these people so troubling - they could poison water supplies in these made-up stories and I would deplore the story-teller - especially because this would suggest christianists are a shibboleth.

“It is simply amazing to me how many liberals I encounter (mostly online — in-person liberals seem more willing to actually try to live their values) who claim to value tolerance and respect for all human persons but who display visceral contempt based on nothing but stereotypes whenever the subject is religious people and/or political conservatives.”

And it is simply amazing that you as a moderate are so prone to implicate a lumping of me together with people who use standards selectively.

On a side note - and I am *not* implicating you in my criticism because I do not know your history- I also wonder why it is that liberals are accused for *not* upholding their beliefs out of PC sensitivity when they do not spend their time deploring muslim extremists but are called intolerant when they take care to monitor those christian extremists that are closer to home and more capable of doing damage.

know few if any of what you describe as “Christianists”. In fact, the only place I ever seem to encounter them is in the partisan fairy tales

Well Jason, I have encountered “Christianists” in person once or twice, and multiple times in newspapers, on television, on radio, and on the Internet. Given that you’re in Nebraska, I have a hard time believing you haven’t met more of these kinds of people.

like the way you worded #2.

kudos.

Christianist exists in far too high quantities in the US

How would you know, Xel? Frankly, and I say this with all due respect, most of your observations about American political and social cultures seem based in nothing more than cheap ideological stereotypes completely unmodified by ANY contact with the real world.

I know a lot of Christians. I know few if any of what you describe as “Christianists”. In fact, the only place I ever seem to encounter them is in the partisan fairy tales that are made up about them and how they supposedly control everything (yet seemingly manage to get few of their actual preferences enacted into law).

It is simply amazing to me how many liberals I encounter (mostly online — in-person liberals seem more willing to actually try to live their values) who claim to value tolerance and respect for all human persons but who display visceral contempt based on nothing but stereotypes whenever the subject is religious people and/or political conservatives.